1
10
10
-
https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/40461/archive/files/320e4f4e33151732d9d8658e500d0d3e.jpg?Expires=1712793600&Signature=Uu84nxG1WiACoyi6g1jiR%7EjvTUANC7omeEAacgKWslGC9IqS1SQO-ajLJp9QMZQKYSDXw1yXgMuo7jsz4sNcftXRbmE5BgGcOQLV8NMaeGvS%7Evkxy1SjMdshH8k57FVWctHPhUbZw6DirqZ53i%7E%7EH4DYk89D%7EzkaG3jzRi9HoX8FlMJ81BWJ4BBRuVy6XAoKzeFtYenGc8BY3YYZ3H5zNptewRcs2ceqFmc4GrJr-M4RWgGENe0nbskV%7Ezq7T-YzENOZ60cso3gSnFcrqUxvsa1wILDQi47WlPBFD9epwqMtovVf66UnShtkseiBlSzD9VFFeMPdX1Zr%7E7nYbYTDsA__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM
c8883c7b4f25eeeeb3ceea0e534fc7b8
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
G.B. Ballantyne
https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/40461/archive/files/d1231abf7a4425febf83383afcc24cd6.mp3?Expires=1712793600&Signature=H2aAI%7ENEOXcSs%7E46iFY6x3HMT5TYO2OWZ3syjfR6%7EWgJl0jAmB6VoZ8gfNflXH765vw1kjHOsRwL6zjj2-M1Op9jxBHZrAvu-SfigHfOwnsMAQ1xkRUkE-J%7EGg-HVu6OPaZjEAhEsLIcfXcMcGio%7Eh3RcpMingiKK42OoQZqKnSml6JBJDalUkXCDoAdTR784xwv6zYugLJ3HcKzua2OXkTHXTHx5a8%7ELV9Vs-sXL6pAYYyBd40gHZpXkFmGdTqLE8O6ji%7EEMmMqCr3UnqjYWLT25avkdmcZCgTxv35rj3EeatGLWDN2QpiLYGWiwU1ahObApVZknVp6L5Es6M1L-Q__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM
dc49f7601002f228b33743b68b4226f3
https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/40461/archive/files/2132cc7effe6ed257d7303c2c4ec4124.pdf?Expires=1712793600&Signature=S%7EC%7EdEpbeXGH7JD7-8ICjAQgwWpHPxNmjwAsUyD34FVE5hNotawPtL%7ENqkWiJkodjnUG4nOxZgf6XrVhg0Wwj18JbPq8Jrwu0ExVmUPZ24PqLe%7EFgpToWJ78378HavIJKpSmrAvj85svPp-fRZJ4DFq%7E8pVNtdpEYUyqJGj7IAtqY3oCIIOofZDqNqQlSs59O80aL2nJGl5Ryk5cIOVryJ9-8AEM%7E0YlIf8Zo%7EMzTcZa8bxph59hSMVmk32TsD%7E8fA85Sxe%7EVWQUNhQDVQhQVRxW-89XXkJji4QnKAhSqZF7tTFyb-fLV7H6UZGGkWoKv9kI3NXSM-za13J58Q-DOw__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM
ac174aa77caf4c414fbf8cdec51f1fe9
PDF Text
Text
1
Interview subject: G.B. Ballantyne
Interviewer: J. Hunter Moore
Date: September 26, 2017
Location of interview: National Academy for the Performing Arts (NAPA), Port of Spain, Trinidad
and Tobago
Actual name: Gregory Ballantyne
Date of birth: September 6, 1951
Place of birth: San Fernando, Trinidad
Lived abroad: Lived in Jamaica in 1985
Awards (as of March 2018): International Extempo Monarch (1990), International Humorous
Calypso Monarch (1995)
Best songs/best-known songs: “Calypso Rising,” “Ramajay,” “Carnival Children,” “Ribbons”
--------------------------------------Individuals heard during the interview:
GB: G.B. Ballantyne
HM: Hunter Moore
--------------------------------------Trinidad and Tobago terms and expressions as used in the interview:
Bacchanal: public quarrel
Meh: my
Petrotrin: the state-owned oil company of the Republic of Trinidad and Tobago
--------------------------------------Subject sings: 4:06, 4:28, 4:37, 9:57
--------------------------------------Notes about interview: the final (approx.) 45 seconds of the interview was on an unrelated topic
and has not been included
---------------------------------------
�2
Interview:
HM: I’m sitting here with Gregory Ballantyne on September 26, 2017. And tell me what
instruments you play?
GB: I play the steel pan, mouth organ, drums, and I’m currently learning the keyboard.
HM: And what do you write on, when you write music. What do you use most?
GB: I just compose out of thin air. I use a portable cassette recorder. Old school (two missing
syllables).
HM: So, you don’t really have an instrument in your hands?
GB: No. I’m not limited by my playing ability. (Laughter.)
HM: That’s good. (Laughter.) That’s good. When did you begin writing calypsos?
GB: Ooh, boy, back in Hope E.C. School, Tobago, at the tender age of nine.
HM: At nine.
GB: As a senior I won the arts festival in scholarly speaking and verse speaking and started
dabbling in music as well, yeah.
HM: But what interested you in calypso in particular?
GB: I think it was just in my blood. I don’t remember having any particular inspiration back then.
It’s just something that came natural. I was the kind of guy who did doze off in class, not doze
off, but daze off, you know.
HM: Yeah. Look out the window.
GB: Yeah. And because something would fill my head, that I would need to work on, I just felt a
vibe, you know, and I would lose track of whatever the teacher was saying, you know, because I
was just, I was in my own little world.
HM: Well, I know you write other kinds of music besides calypso, so what makes it calypso?
How do you know when you’re writing calypso?
GB: Calypso. Well calypso has a unique beat, you know, per se, it has a unique rhythm that is
all its own. You know, once you go above a certain pace, it becomes calypso. Even if you
started off doing something that was originally R&B, if you go above a certain tempo, it’s
automatically in that zone that we call calypso.
HM: So, you’re hearing that rhythm in your head . . .
GB: Mm-hm.
HM: . . . when you’re composing . . .
�3
GB: Yep.
HM: . . . and so you know that it’s a calypso now. It might have started out as something else.
GB: (Laughs.) Yes. Yes.
HM: But now it’s a calypso. So, it has more to do with the beat than the lyric itself?
GB: Calypso as I said is identified primarily by the beat, the rhythm. Yep. Mm-hm.
HM: When you are writing a calypso are you influenced by other kinds of music?
GB: Oh yes, I listen to everything. I listen to rock, reggae, gospel. So, I know that these
influences are impacting me as much as I may not, you know, want to admit it. It must. It must.
HM: Sure.
GB: You become what you imbibe.
HM: Sure. And what you hear.
GB: Mm-hm.
HM: What about the older calypso, more trad-, you know, traditional calypso, is that influencing
you, too?
GB: Oh yes, definitely. I listen to a lot of Roaring Lion, and Attila. I was very excited about the
documentary you put together.
(Note: G.B. thought that HM was the maker of a documentary film about Jamaican mento
music, “Pepper and Pimiento.”)
HM: Oh yeah.
GB: I learned a lot from it. Lord Flea, and the Lord Fly and these guys. Very exciting, you know.
HM: Yeah. So, all of the traditional as well as contemporary is having an effect . . .
GB: Definitely. Definitely.
HM: . . . when you’re composing.
GB: Impacted by everything.
HM: When, where do you, I know this is, as I’m a songwriter, too, where . . .
GB: Where do I get inspiration?
HM: Yeah. Where do your ideas come from? I mean what inspires you?
GB: Anywhere . . .
�4
HM: Anything.
GB: . . . and everywhere.
HM: Anything.
GB: Anything. I’ll be looking at championship league football, which I love. I play football. I look
at football. And out of a clear blue sky a song may just drop into meh spirit and I have to just
dive for a recorder and, and capture it or otherwise it probably won’t come back, you know? So,
it’s, half of the songs I write, I like to say the songs write me, more than I write them, you know?
HM: So, it’s happening really before you even are aware.
GB: Exactly.
HM: I mean, it’s just there. Your brain . . .
GB: My job is just to catch it.
HM: Your brain’s working.
GB: All the time.
HM: You don’t say, “Oh, that would make a good song.” Your brain is just working.
GB: Once in a while I will do that, but I find seven times out of ten, the song comes.
HM: It’s happening.
GB: It’s like I’m on a frequency. And I just receiving vibrations and I just need to capture them
and put them on paper or . . ..
HM: Do you have any stories you could tell about a particular song . . .
GB: Oh, yes.
HM: . . . and where you were when you had . . .
GB: Oh yes.
HM: . . . the inspiration? That would be, could you tell us . . .
GB: Oh yes.
HM: . . . what the song, what was the name . . .
GB: “Calypso Rising,” which most people put down as my best work to date. I was walking
home from work. I was working at, in Petrotrin as a public relations officer and just short of my
home, five, twenty yards from my home. I heard, (Sings.) “Rising out of the ghetto of third world
stagnation.” (Speaks.) That’s all. So, I run home, throw my briefcase in the car, told my wife, “I
�5
think there’s some kind of spirit in the road. I just heard something.” Because I know I didn’t
hear it from anybody’s radio, no external source. I heard it in my head. So, I went back out and I
heard nothing else. So, I came back inside and I put, I added a line. (Sings.) Rising out of the
ghetto of third world stagnation/Reaching out for tomorrow with a world vibration. (Speaks.) And
I started to build the song from there. (Sings.) I hear a song, I hear a cry/Some say it wrong, I
can’t see why. (Speaks.) And the next thing I knew I had “Calypso Rising” on my hand, which
most people will tell you is my best work to date.
HM: And, but there, you know, when you look back at it, there was no particular reason why that
idea just happened . . .
GB: Nope.
HM: . . . at that point.
GB: Nope.
HM: It wasn’t something you read.
GB: Nothing.
HM: It wasn’t something . . .
GB: It had nothing to do with me.
HM: It just . . .
GB: Like I said. This song just came. That one line. One line. Lyrics and melody together. Just
came out of nowhere. But the freakiest song I think I’ve ever written is a song called “Time.”
‘Cause I know myself. I normally write lyrics and melody together simultaneously.
5: 09
HM: Oh good, that’s a good . . .
GB: Okay?
HM: . . . question, too.
GB: I normally put . . .
HM: At the same time.
GB: The melody has a bit of a lead. Okay?
HM: Sometimes . . .
GB: I could la-la a few bars and I put the words afterwards.
�6
HM: It comes a little bit after.
GB: Yeah. But generally, words and music together. This particular song, which I call “Time” just
came to me, like out of the blue. And no melody. Just lyrics. I was sitting with a girl in a room.
And I just started pacing up and down like a madman. I said to her: “Write this: Time does not
move as we who traverse time’s horizon, yet we perceive in the future and past.” She said,
“What?” I said, “Just write what you hear, because there’s more comin’. I don’t have time to edit.
I will, I will try to fix it afterwards.” It just came out of nowhere and I dictated the entire song, or
what ended up being the entire song, called “Time,” which I licensed to Sugar Aloes. Alright?
Back in 1982, I think it was, okay? The freakiest thing about it is, I put the melody to it
afterwards. And I was reading a book about six or seven years later called Ageless Body,
Timeless Mind by Depak Chopra, and everything I said in the song is in the book, and I never
read the book before . . .
HM: That’s wild.
GB: . . . I wrote the song. That is wild. Yeah. “Time.”
HM: That’s good. Well, I . . .
GB: And I could never prove to anyone that I didn’t read the book before I wrote the song.
HM: No. How would you?
GB: That whole cyclical concept of time. Everything is in the song and I never read the book
until about seven years afterwards.
HM: Was it word for word or just the idea?
GB: Almost word for word.
HM: That’s amazing.
GB: Amazing
HM: Yeah.
GB: So, I’m satisfied that there’s some kind of energy, some kind of vibration.
HM: It must have been the time to write that, you know?
GB: Yeah. Yeah.
HM: ‘Cause I’ve noticed that in Nashville, that if I think of a really good title, if . . .
GB: Somebody else, somewhere . . .
HM: . . . was thinking . . .
GB: Will also have the same idea.
�7
HM: If I don’t get busy and write it, then . . .
GB: Somebody will jump the gun and do it before you.
HM: And it won’t be because they heard me.
GB: Nope.
HM: It’s just in the air.
GB: That’s right, that’s right.
HM: You know?
GB: There’s a frequency. (Laughter.)
HM: Are there any themes you tend to go back to in your music? That looking at your music that
you’ve written?
GB: Oh yes. Oh yes. I, not just themes. There are some lines I have to be careful not to repeat
in songs that I write for different people, you know? One is about equality of people, you know.
That we should all see each other as one. That’s something that comes out because that’s me.
It comes out in my work and I have to be careful to shift it and say it in different ways, at
different times.
HM: So, it’s like you’re writing the same song over and over.
GB: Yes. I guess growing up with a Baptist grandmother in Tobago she imbedded some
qualities in me that are still coming out in my work.
HM: That’s a good message.
GB: Yeah. (Laughs.)
HM: Are there any others you can think of, besides that?
GB: First world, third world perception. I have an issue with that, too. And that comes out from
time to time, you know. And that geography about the, you know, first world and the third world.
I think we, I am trying to, in my own little way, to kind of work past that, you know.
HM: You’ve heard the phrase two-thirds world.
GB: Of course. Yes.
HM: And I like that.
GB: Yes.
HM: Are you influenced by what’s going on in the community?
�8
GB: Of course, you are. Yeah. But I tend to shy away from doing that because the average
composer, I hate to think of myself as average, I think, I like to think I’m a little better than
average (Laughs.) The average composer tends to dive at those topics without thinking. Like I
got called by couple of people in the last couple of weeks tell me they wanted me to do a song
on something that was very much in the news in Trinidad over the past three or four weeks, the
Syrian community saying that they are the one per-centers and they are the most powerful
group in society. They said that to Anthony Bourdain when he came down here.
HM: Oh yeah. When he did his show.
GB: “Parts Unknown,” “Parts Unknown.” And they rush me like it was an original idea and I’m
thinking to myself, “I think we’re going to have a wash of songs next year on that topic, so I do
not want to write on that.”
HM: ‘Cause, I mean, calypso is known for being topical about . . .
GB: Yes, it is.
HM: . . . you know, mentioning the prime minister’s name, or whatever.
GB: But I just finished a song yesterday in which I said that the role of calypso is changing, or
has to change, because our role is now being usurped by social media and the multiplicity of
media. Everybody’s smart phone, you know, has access to all kinds of stuff. So, the role of the
calypsonian, where he traditionally would come forward and bring to the public’s knowledge all
the little secrets of the society and this little bacchanal here and there, in the, especially the
upper echelons of society, that role has changed. But there are people who are still set on
putting, leaving the calypsonian in that mode. And I think we need to evolve out of that.
HM: That’s interesting. Yeah. There’s not the need for the oral . . .
GB: Nope. There’s too much media.
HM: . . . passing the news from mouth to mouth.
GB: We are no longer the voice of the people, per se. Yes, we are still the voice, but we’re not
the news carriers anymore. The news is there in your face . . .
HM: So, what is . . .
GB: . . . all day long.
HM: . . . what’s needed? I just went to the Shadow tribute, well, on Saturday night.
GB: Mm-hm. Mm-hm. Yup. Yup. “The Man, the Moods, His Music.”
HM: It’s interesting with him, that his, some of his songs were much broader. They were beyond
the topical.
GB: Yes, he is. Well, he is.
HM: ‘What’s the meaning of life’?
�9
GB: That’s right.
HM: You know?
9:56
GB: That’s right. (Sings.) Man can take away my honor. Man can put me (two or three missing
syllables). (Speaks.) “My Belief,” I think is the name of that song. Fantastic song by Shadow.
Yeah. You can sing that in any part of the world. They can lift you up and drop you in Moscow,
Vienna, Timbuktu. You can sing that and it would make sense to your audience hearing it for the
very first time. That’s the kind of work I want to do. And that’s where I think calypso needs to go.
HM: He was kind of a groundbreaker in that way.
GHB: That’s where calypso needs to go, you know?
HM: Did your time in Jamaica, you were only there for a year, but did it affect your music?
GB: Not directly. I won the calypso competition on campus, performed with Byron Lee, had
some great fun on the north coast and stuff. But it didn’t really affect my music. I was too busy
studying sociology and psychology and all kind of stuff, completing my assignments on a daily
basis.
HM: Just to get your business done.
GB: Yeah. Yeah.
HM: The last few questions I have just basically are sort of the practical thing, and you already
told me that when you’re composing, you don’t have an instrument . . .
GB: No, I’m not, I’m not, I don’t allow my composing to be limited by my playing ability. I do
however have a fantastic guitarist, a guy called Lennox Saunders, with whom I work.
HM: So, you work with him.
GB: After I’ve comp-, put the thing together, I rush to his house and he will then pick up his
guitar and I will tell him, “Mm-mm, not that. That’s, I don’t feel that chord. I feel this, I feel that.
Not Eb, maybe F.” ‘Cause I knew, I’m beginning to learn, a few, a bit of the language. Right?
HM: So, you can tell him. But you’ve got the melody set. The melody’s there.
GB: Oh yeah. Oh yeah. The melody’s there.
HM: And then you’re, he’s working with, he’s suggesting chords.
GB: And he has fantastic ears. So, if for example I sing like (Sings.) I hear a song. (Talks.) He
will hit (Hums a melody.) He will find the accompanying chord and if he plays a chord and I don’t
�10
feel it, I’ll say, “Mm-mm. Give me something else.” And he will give me three or four options and
I will say, “Oh, yeah. That, that’s it.”
HM: Ah, that’s very interesting.
GB: So, he’s an integral part of . . .
HM: Of helping you realize the song.
GB: Yeah. Build the thing and give it shape.
HM: Do you write anything down before it’s finished in your head, or you just put it on a hand
recorder?
GB: Both ways. Yeah. The hand recorder is faster. Yeah. That’s why I was so excited about the,
your digital recorder.
HM: You can just carry that with you.
GB: Mm-hm. Mm-hm.
HM: But typically, so you just, you’re working on it in your head. Do you put it down before
you’re finished with it?
GB: Yes, yes. Yeah. I put it down in pieces. I come back and look at it dispassionately a week or
two later on, or a day later because sometimes the idea comes in the middle like I said of
nowhere. I’m downtown shopping on the way to talk with you and a vibe just drops in and so I
reach for something, record it, and then I go home . . .
HM: And fin . . .
GB: and later or tomorrow I look at it again.
HM: And you may not have the whole song. You may . . .
GB: No, no, no.
HM: . . . may just have a verse or a chorus . . .
GB: It may just be a line.
HM: . . . or a piece.
GB: It may just be a line, it may just be a phrase.
HM: But like you said, if you don’t get that much down you might lose it.
GB: It may never come back, because you get distracted by the other noises you will hear in the
course of the day, especially musical noises. That will knock out from your head.
HM: Well, you hear a radio or whatever . . .
�11
GB: Mm-hm. Mm-hm. That’s it.
HM: So, you generally carry a recorder with you?
GB: A recorder with me. Yep.
HM: Are you using a cassette recorder?
GB: I like old school. Yeah. Because with . . .
HM: Me, too.
GB: . . . a cassette recorder you can stop and rewind and erase.
HM: And you can hear it but with a . . .
GB: But with these fancy digital gizmos, every time you stop, it’s, you got a new number and it
goes on as a new file.
HM: It’s harder. I’m so used, ‘cause with a handheld recorder you can press rewind, leave the
play on, and you can hear it go back to a certain place.
GB: Exactly (Imitates sound of tape rewinding.) Yeah. Exactly. (Laughs.)
HM: I’ve got a shoebox full of cassettes, shoeboxes full of cassettes.
GB: I’m stuck on my old cassette recorder. I know I will graduate. I have one of these at home,
actually a smaller one, but it digital and fancy, but I like meh cassette recorder. It gives me the
option to rewind, to stop, to replay, fast forward, erase, without having to deal with all the digital
tracking.
HM: Oh, yeah. I’m still figuring it out. Is there anything I didn’t cover that you can think of? That’s
really kind of the breadth of what I wanted to ask you . . .
GB: Well that’s okay.
HM: . . . that I was thinking about. Oh, how do you get your songs recorded that you don’t write,
that you’re not recording yourself? How do those . . .?
GB: These clients call me and say, “Listen GB, I want a song.” And they . . .
HM: Okay. So, you’re basically commissioning, they’re commissioning songs from you.
GB: Exactly. And more often than not. They don’t even have a topic. They just say I leave it up
to you. You know, I want something . . .
HM: I want a song.
GB: . . . social commentary. I want to make the Dimanche Gras, I want to make it to the Soca
Monarch. Whatever. They leave it up to me most of the time.
�12
HM: How long, are you still performing yourself?
GB: I’m actually, I’ve been off the stage now for twelve years, but I plan to return this year, all
things being equal and if. . .
HM: I’ll be back.
GB: . . . they’ll take me back I plan to come back on stage. In fact, I already finish my song,
something called “Vintage.”
HM: Ah, well, you told Ray a line from that.
GB: Yeah. Yes. I sang a couple of lines for your guys.
HM: I liked that. I liked that. I can, I could relate to that.
GB: Yeah. Yeah. I think it’s a nice reintroduction after twelve years.
HM: When you were starting though, before you made a name for yourself, how did you get
your songs, how did that work, how did getting songs to artists who would record them?
GB: Well, I had to start first.
HM: Well, you were recording yourself.
GB: I was recording myself, and my repu-, people heard my songs and somewhere along the
line somebody realized I could write for other people. And the requests started coming.
HM: But they heard you sing them first and then they said maybe, you know, I could do that
song, or maybe you could write a song for me.
GB: Yep. Yeah. Yeah. I was singing first in 1986. I started over in Sparrow’s Hideaway. A song
called ‘Big Country Attitude.” I used to get six encores on a Saturday night.
15:03
HM: Wow.
GB: I distinctly remember Karuso Kid was the emcee saying after encore number six, he not
calling me back out. He said, “The guy’s young. You’re gonna kill him. Six is enough.” Yeah. I
had the number one song in the tent in my debut year. Made it all the way to Dimanche Gras as
a result.
HM: I’ll have to find that.
GB: “Big Country Attitude.”
.
HM: “Big Country Attitude.”
�13
GB: Mm-hm. Sparrow’s Hideaway, 1986.
HM: Were you signed as a writer to anybody, like an exclusive songwriter at any point?
GB: I did that for a brief while with Ice Records, Ed Grant. In my debut year, by the way, in 1986
I also launched Denyse Plummer and Rikki Jai. Denyse Plummer?
HM: They had songs, you had songs with them.
GB: I wrote their brand, their very first calypsos.
HM: Their very first calypsos.
GB: Yeah.
HM: I’m familiar with them as artists. That was a very big year for you.
GB: Den-. A very big year. In 1986. Yep.
HM: Well, great. Well, thanks very much.
GB: I’ve also won the Extempo competition in 1990.
HM: 1990. Yeah. Tell me that, tell me, so you . . .
GB: International Extempo Monarch in 1990, and 1995 I won the International Humorous
Calypso Monarch with a song called “Gas” and another one called “Dog in the Roti.”
HM: (Laughs.)
GB: Very, very funny stuff.
(Edit.)
End of interview
�
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
J. Hunter Moore
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
G.B. Ballantyne
Location
The location of the interview
National Academy for the Performing Arts (NAPA), Port of Spain, Trinidad and Tobago
Original Format
The type of object, such as painting, sculpture, paper, photo, and additional data
WAV
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
16:10
Time Summary
A summary of an interview given for different time stamps throughout the interview
Subject sings: 4:06; 4:28; 4:37; 9:57
The final (approx.) 45 seconds of the interview was on an unrelated topic and have not been included.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
G.B. Ballantyne Interview
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
September 26, 2017
Description
An account of the resource
Actual name: Gregory Ballantyne
Date of birth: September 6, 1951
Place of birth: San Fernando, Trinidad
Lived abroad: Lived in Jamaica in 1985
Awards (as of March 2018): International Extempo Monarch (1990), International Humorous Calypso Monarch (1995)
Best songs/best-known songs: “Calypso Rising,” “Ramajay,” “Carnival Children,” “Ribbons”
---------------------------------------
Individuals heard during the interview:
GB: G.B. Ballantyne
HM: Hunter Moore
---------------------------------------
Trinidad and Tobago terms and expressions as used in the interview:
Bacchanal: public quarrel
Meh: my
Petrotrin: the state-owned oil company of the Republic of Trinidad and Tobago
-
https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/40461/archive/files/99d3996e91845f166bc9f3374bdcb715.jpg?Expires=1712793600&Signature=bWQWLxZEmR24U9TeeRSyJolkVEXTMdcZItfcZcEANmtEBqiMnqKm0zv5xtkvlaRO2HJBZuwIrflwJK8kfchkwmFEhg%7EPSF5xxxVjVrzNEU48PTYqKz4KAfeav9-htVyfgpClELIT55WtXrXVEjMorbOo29w9Co1VW5VZ5-dfLdXA7VhK4Qo1EHZmEHV5J2%7ELrMjtQuwEW05vhv07pPPCKRUTKWm3D-E7VNjVk7SP5Wapdjv9TzMLNhGhZP4zp2nq%7EmFxTWOADBEPppQkY308ARxoJEqalkoCsBEPYh3ncQk5HQuNzT6sPZTv109poCHJyCwYi-L6eXoqixYtPg%7EV%7Ew__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM
0a215d78a51714655175718decf42dd3
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Gypsy
https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/40461/archive/files/fdc715eb4bdf31872b82fb3e7a336036.mp3?Expires=1712793600&Signature=dauSqebw1bp45bRN3fdVrkvMO%7E4ET7VK7eN4edv-y30A8h1uZaps6rw-x%7EfHbnRY6q0zmZtQiHcil4-fQ3QNwowJ3usSufTxwdhj31dmVxv5ypdMrrNYZ9-8j4-kfSYm%7Eee-rs9ssPcgM%7E5uNlcXoMzqmwmX9V5dvQ7C7tIGwa5grGsak2rboC3QL0A03xpOE-ah2oL2b78dhGufW7j%7EVXKhtjOHnsD1iVIObp5IDzD9QBUg8oN0SSfDCQFbKGY9V-KVQvWHv70o18LNydQx73jvirW%7E8SZ0mpR1yX00udHmuFIv0Ice8QMHu13Hb-UOSwguJmyGBzpzO0WLgeIfXQ__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM
79cd074d90e4a99e7e9f612292217257
https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/40461/archive/files/ce09ad8a61267459b321374189bd261b.pdf?Expires=1712793600&Signature=PcnkHubTuKEbo6VHJS-4-6%7EQACz0eY0WNhvFPH2AR5zYG2jiREI9lV8UmysEcra6E6FsFTd0mSF4K8iEzQp2yDKo5y-Bl3YwhS-KR%7EXO-Zlut4ZcmZs6TGGh8%7EiTtdnndDQJ2nqpfagGUJfrelYX4YaF9hlO5nbwn1B5A8cgO%7EznOdUWQdRLW9L49jkLOEoxhQTuUgx6BZMCceL6wbkDEZZn%7E%7Ekaer5Qdr2LxRufiJ6l26bUw1h%7E44NLWS0ko4h-oSvtyJgiAvdhbyxBMITtqbRmBXRrrc8bcNEpvvgxgkqFDSJMAjMPxui50unDkqZTH1M5DHnf1fvfbCNgnes-hw__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM
a74a72287b415b9b66b9b65b48407cd1
PDF Text
Text
1
Interview subject: Gypsy
Interviewer: J. Hunter Moore
Date: October 25, 2017
Location of interview: Queens Park West, Port of Spain, Trinidad and Tobago
Actual name: Winston Peters
Date of birth: October 20, 1952
Place of birth: Trinidad and Tobago
Lived abroad: since 1968 has divided time between U.S. and T&T, naturalized U.S. citizen
Awards (as of 2018): 1997 National Calypso Monarch, Nine times National Extempo Monarch
Best songs/best-known songs: “Sinkin’ Ship,” “Little Black Boy,” “Soca Train”
--------------------------------Individuals heard during interview:
G: Gypsy
HM: Hunter Moore
---------------------------------Trinidad and Tobago terms and expressions as used in the interview:
BG: British Guyana
Cobo: turkey vulture
----------------------------------Subject sings, plays guitar: 1:22, 7:35, 9:30, 13:22, 15:34, 22:58, 32:16
----------------------------------Notes about interview: the subject quietly plays guitar throughout the interview. Beginning at
28:26 a leaf blower is heard in the background.
----------------------------------Interview:
�2
HM: Well, I’m sitting here now in the apartment with Winston Peters, better known as Gypsy, to
talk about songwriting and let’s start by talking about when you began writing calypsos, when that
was, how that happened.
G: I started writing calypsos when I was four years old. I wrote my first song actually just by
listening to people singing and falling in love with it. And my mother, being a singer, my
mother’s, yeah, my mother’s singer, not a professional as we know a professional to be. But she
was well-known in our, in our community in the circle there.
HM: As a singer.
G: As a singer, yes. See, and I was fascinated by that and then the calypsonians I listened to,
all the calypsos that were being played on one of the little thing, we had that thing on the wall
that wasn’t a radio as we know it. It was called a radio fusion. Yeah, just one little speaker on
the wall and I actually used to listen to those things and when I was four years old I wrote my
first song.
HM: Your very first one that you could sing.
G: Yeah. So, I wrote it. It wasn’t much of a song anyway.
HM: What was it about?
G: It was just a matter of putting words together. It was something called . . .
G: (Sings.) (Missing word) always mad/Here in Trinidad/She went to BG/She dance with a fried
monkey/She went to Tobago/She dance with a male cobo/Now she eatin’ some big rat/Like a
(missing word).
G: (Speaks.) It didn’t make much sense anyway, but it was . . .
HM: It was complete.
G: It was my song.
HM: It was a story.
G: Yeah. And it was my song and it was my story. And that was it.
HM: That was the beginning. Did you keep, continue writing from that time?
G: Yeah. I kept writing, and writing songs and I was, you know I was just fascinated by writing
and never stopped from then till now. I just keep writing songs.
HM: Well that, so your first song was a calypso?
G: Yes.
HM: Did you write other kinds of music besides calypso, then, as you grew up, and as you . . .
G: As I grew up I wrote country songs. I wrote country.
�3
HM: So you were writing specifically, “I’m going to write a country song.”
G: I’m going to write a country song, yeah, yeah.
HM: That kind of thing. Well, talk about the difference then, how you know when it’s a calypso.
“This is a calypso I’m writing and this is a country song I’m writing.”
G: Well, because I am, let me tell you, when I was a child, my mother loved country music. My
mother loved Patsy Cline and Jim Reeves more than anything else. And in those days in
Trinidad and Tobago we had, she used to buy the, for us, I must have been about ten, eleven at
the time, or may-, small, younger than that, my mother, being a singer, she bought all the copies
of the song record, of the song, not the recording.
HM: Not the record.
G: Right.
HM: Like the sheet music?
G: Right, right, just the sheet music, just the music for it. And she would be singing it, so we
would learn that and then she encouraged me to do that kind of thing. And I would listen to the
country songs because that’s what she liked.
HM: That’s what she was playing in the house.
G: Yeah.
HM: Well, if she didn’t have the record, she was just singing it, does she play an instrument?
G: She played the guitar.
HM: So she would play the guitar.
G: My mother played the guitar and sing Patsy Cline and Jim Reeves, . . .
HM: But she would hear these songs . . .
G: . . . Buck Owens.
HM: . . . on the fusion. You would be able to hear the, where was she hearing the country
music?
G: Well, I think she used to hear it on that as well because we had a lot of country programs
here. You know . . .
HM: That’s interesting.
G: . . . on that little radio fusion thing.
HM: So that was available to people here.
�4
G: They used to play more of that than calypso on the radio, really. They still do. They still do
play more foreign songs on the radio here than our local calypso.
HM: Do you think that country music being played here was the result of the American military
presence. It was gone by then, but . . .
G: I think. I think so, though. I think so. I think that that influenced it a lot because I think they
used to even get that radio station through the American base or something. I can’t quite
remember.
HM: It made me kind of think about that. Maybe that was, that was true.
G: But, it had some influence. Yeah.
HM: But how, talk about then, to you, your impression then, as a writer, the difference between
writing a calypso, what makes it a calypso?
G: I think what makes a calypso is the thought wave that goes into it. When I’m writing a
calypso, I know this is what I want to sing as a calypsonian. I write a country song I know, and
the melody that you put to it is what differentiates it from one thing to the other, you know?
When you’re doing a calypso, it’s structured a certain way, and when you’re doing a country
song it’s structured a different way.
HM: So is it the structure of the lyric? Or the music that . . .
G: Both.
HM: . . . you are thinking about?
G: Both. I think about both. The lyrics are different, even though it tells a story, but it tells a story
of a different kind, you know?
HM: So, the way the story is told is different with calypso? Or is it the subject matter itself?
5:00
G: Subject matter.
HM: What you are singing about is different.
G: About, yes. It’s different. Both, both. I think it’s combination of all of the above.
HM: All those things.
G: Yes.
HM: That makes them different.
�5
G: Yeah.
HM: And I know it’s something you don’t think about so much when you’re doing it. You have a
natural feel for calypso, you have a natural feel for country.
G: Yeah.
HM: So, you’re just doing it.
G: I’m just doing it.
HM: You’re not thinking about, “Okay, I can’t do this because now it’s gonna be this or that.”
G: Yeah.
HM: You’re just, “I want to write something country because I love country. I want to write
something calypso, because I love calypso.”
G: Because I love calypso. Yeah.
HM: “So, here I go,” and you’re, you’ve got a certain rhythm in your head?
G: I do that. There’s a certain rhythm in your head and I mean I’m fortunate in terms of me
growing up and after growing up I mean I was exposed to a lot of country music even though I’m
in New York City. ‘Cause that’s where I spend most of my time. But in New York City I learned, I
listen to country all the time as well.
HM: I know there’s a country radio station.
G: Oh, there’re are many, many of them. And now they are even more accessible because you
could get any station you want.
HM: With the internet now you can do that.
G: Yeah, you can get any one. And I tune into country all the time.
HM: You had a lot of country, you listened to country a lot when you were . . .
G: I still do. I still do.
HM: . . . when you’re in New York.
G: Yes, yeah.
HM: Well, I was going to say, I mean one of the questions I ask in general is are you influenced
by other music and you definitely are influenced by country.
G: Oh yeah. Country.
HM: Anything else, that you, outside, that influences your calypso composing besides country?
�6
G: Well, not influences my calypso composing per se, but influences my compositions ‘cause I
also do reggae music. And I write all of them.
HM: Well, that’s good to know, too. So you write reggae.
G: Yeah.
HM: So that, when you listen, I guess you . . .
G: The way you structure a song lends itself to what type of song you want it to be.
HM: Okay. So how it’s structured.
G: It’s (missing word).
HM: How does reggae, I mean, I know the sound of reggae’s different. How does, but how does
reggae, how is it structured different than calypso, for example.
G: Well, because reggae to me is a more revolutionary music than calypso.
HM: More the socialG: Calypso could be very social but reggae has, when I want to do a real rebel song, like I’ll do it
with a reggae flavor. Because, like I did a song called “I’m a Warrior,” right? And it was a big
song, really. Yeah, sold a lot of copies.
HM: How does it go?
G: (Sings.) Don’t free my hands and leave my mind in chains/Don’t say I’m free and you still
washin’ my brain/To do the things that you want me to/I’ve got a mind of my own. I’m going to
do what I want to do/‘Cause I’m a warrior and I’m a fighter/For what I stand for and that’s my
total freedom/Said I’m a warrior and I’m a fighter/And I’m going to fight on for my freedom. Yeah
HM: Yeah. Yeah. So that’s more of a uprising kind of a song.
G: Yes.
HM: But calypso is maybe more of a social criticism?
G: Social, so yes. More of a social . . .
HM: Kind of a commentary.
G: Social commentary.
HM: Rather than promoting . . .
G: Yeah.
HM: . . . resistance or whatever.
�7
G: Right.
HM: Yeah, that’s interesting. So, yeah, that’s, it’s really not necessarily the subject matter, but
the attitude.
G: The attitude towards it, yes.
HM: The attitude.
G: And the subject matter. And the subject matter because we do handle in that, in a calypso
you’d have to handle it in a different way.
HM: You would go with that a different way.
G: But there’s different kind of expression.
HM: And really the humor is always important in calypso, too.
G: Humor and that you can do humor easier in calypso than you can do it in reggae.
HM: With a reggae, yeah. You don’t think of reggae and humor as well.
G: It doesn’t lend itself as well, the melodic structure doesn’t lend itself to that kind of
perception.
HM: Yeah. And I, we could make different parallels with country and calypso. There’s definitely
humor in country music.
G: In country, and you could do that, I know (Sings.) Oh, Lord it’s hard to be humble/To be
perfect in so many ways/I can’t wait to look in the mirror/’Cause I get better looking each day/To
see me is to love me/I must be one hell of a man/Oh Lord, it’s hard to be humble, but I’m doing
the best that I can.
HM: And you could hear, not a calypso version necessarily of that song, but that attitude.
G: Yes.
HM: You would also hear in calypso, so . . .
G: In calypso. Yeah, yeah.
10:02
HM: Where do you find your ideas? For songs, where do they . . .
G: I find it in my everyday life. I find it everywhere. Different countries where I go, you know.
Like if you go to Haiti for instance, you would write a song you would see all . . .
HM: Different things.
�8
G: . . . that, you will see more depression.
HM: Oh, yeah. The difficulty.
G: And then you have a more, that expression would come differently. If you go to New York
City you look at the life in New York like that one that guy did that country song that says it’s not
easy to make it in New York City, you know, it’s different than what I would do in Trinidad. I
wrote a song in Trinidad called “Born to Survive,” you know, so it . . .
HM: Depends on your situation.
G: Depends on your situation.
HM: Where you are.
G: And I think you as a songwriter, too, would know that wherever you go, if you’re going to
write a song in Trinidad right now it’s not going to be the same way like if you’re going to write it
in Nashville. It would lend itself to something else. You know it would lend itself to that
expression of mind. That . . .
HM: Your location.
G: . . . that you’re in at that point in time.
HM: But what about the specific, the hook or the title, you know the actual thing in the song,
where does that, where do those come from, you know? The, where did you, is it reading the
news? Is it talking to people? Is it . . .
G: It comes from talking to people, it comes from listening to the news, it comes from seeing
things. And then you, it comes from thinking what people would want to say when you write.
You think about . . .
HM: Yeah, is there an example that you can think of? Like where you got a particular idea for a
song, where it came from?
G: Yeah. You know. I think it’s the environment. The environment gives you, lends itself to
whatever you . . .
HM: And then the specific idea comes out, the title for that song.
G: Song.
HM: The central idea.
G: Yeah.
HM: Comes out and the certain words that you use, they occur to you and you think, “That’s a
song.” You know, or it’s, “Wow, I need to write that down.”
�9
G: You know the thing about me is that most thing I hear people say to me sounds like it could
be put into a song.
HM: So there . . .
G: Because I think it has to do with your mindset as a writer.
HM: As you’re listening to other people talk.
G: Yes.
HM: You’re not conscious that you’re looking for an idea. But somebody will say something.
G: Yeah.
HM: Yeah. I heard somebody just say this the other day that they were in a bar . . .
G: Like I was listening to this radio program a couple days ago and I heard them talking about
how fake news and fake thing and there goes my, I got a song and I wrote a whole song about
fake. I said it’s a fakin’ country with two meanings, really. Because people are not going to say
faking, but I am, you know, I am in the writing of this song I’m inducing them to say, not say
faking. I’m inducing to them to say other things.
HM: Think you, can you play just a verse and a chorus?
G: Yes. I’ve got to try to remember it.
HM: Oh, yeah. It’s new.
G: I just did it. It’s called . . . I know the chorus.
HM: Just the chorus is fine.
G: (Sings and plays guitar.) I tired of this fakin’ country/I tired of this fakin’ country/This fakin’
country, this fakin’ country/Everybody fakin’ for we/I’m tired of this fakin’ country/I’m tired of this
fakin’ country/I’m tired of this fakin’ country/It drivin’ me fakin’ crazy.
G: (Speaks.) You know?
HM: Yeah. So that gets it . . .
G: (Sings and plays guitar.) I born in a country where everything is fake/Livin’ in a country it’s
makin me feel, it make me feel my country’s a mistake/Nothing that you see/You can get the
feel/Nothin’ that you’re lookin’ at/It ain’t lookin’ real/I tired of this fakin’ country/I tired of this fakin’
country.
G: (Speaks.) You know, so . . .
HM: So that’s the idea that you heard somebody talking about. . .
G: Yeah. I heard somebody talk on the radio about fake news. . .
�10
HM: Well, we hear . . .
G: . . . fake this, and fake that, and fake the other so I just decided, you know, it’s a fakin’
country.
HM: That’s a great example.
G: And that is better expressed in a calypso.
HM: It is, actually.
G: Than you might hear somebody say something else and it lends itself to a different kind of
expression.
HM: Yeah, ‘cause country you couldn’t use the double entendre there.
G: Very, no, you wouldn’t be able to do that with that. It wouldn’t make sense. It wouldn’t make
sense.
HM: But it’s totally permitted and expected even in calypso.
G: In calypso. Yes.
HM: So people are listening automatically . . .
G: Yes. Yes.
HM: . . . for that always.
G: Yeah.
14:51
HM: Are you drawn to particular themes in your work, that you can say I write kind of in this, I
write about this.
G: Well, I am a social commentator, really. In whatever I do, but in the true sense of the word
I’m very, what, versatile, I would say.
HM: That you’re not limited to one or two categories.
G: Not limited.
HM: “I don’t just do this kind or that kind.”
G: I do everything.
HM: Humor, political. Anything . . .
�11
G: I’ll do anything that comes to me.
HM: . . . that comes into your mind.
G. Yeah.
HM: How are you influenced by your local community? In terms of what you write.
G: Big influence. Big influence. Big influence. Big, big, big influence.
HM: So, do you see, not think of yourself, but when you look at your work . . .
G: (Sings and plays guitar.) For years I’m on this golden sand/Watching as the waves
command/The early morning mist that it has made/Staring at the horizon far/Seems to say stay
where you are/Show for you a (missing word) is on the way/Then a breeze would blow out of
nowhere/And I watched the morning sun appear/That seemed to say “Hello, how do you
do?”/And I stand and watch the dawning of another golden morning/As I have done a thousand
times before/I say ,“Morning, sunrise”/Waking up to greet the day, in that old familiar way.
Looking at her there’s not much I can say/I say, “Morning, sunrise/You’re going now to light the
day/Later on you’ll fade way/Let me thank you for another Mayaro morning.”
HM: I’ve got to ask you about Mayaro.
G: (Sings and plays guitar.) Want to thank you for another Mayaro morning.
HM: Somebody I interviewed said that he was important in your getting on stage. I interviewed
Clevin Romero.
G: Oh yeah, yeah. Oh yeah, oh yeah. He’s my mentor.
HM: Ah, well, that’s great. Talk about that.
G: So, what I want to tell you, like that song, . . .
HM: Okay, yeah.
G: . . . that song is influenced by my own environment.
HM: Of growing up?
G: In Mayaro. And being on the beach. And the boats and the sun.
HM: But coming from that specific place.
G: Yeah. That particular song, that particular song is about Mayaro.
HM: A country song about Mayoro.
G: Yeah, it’s a country song about Mayaro. It’s how I feel about Mayaro. It’s how I, it’s my
environment.
�12
HM: One you associate with your mother, growing up with country music in the house, and
being . . .
G: Yeah.
HM: So it’s all wrapped together.
G: Definitely. Definitely. It’s all wrapped together. Yeah, yeah. That’s my mother’s influence,
right? Right there. And my own upbringing really.
HM: So . . .
G: All I had was the beach.
HM: To go back to the community aspect before I get you to talk about Surpriser. So I know
calypso has a tradition of being, the calypsonian as a spokesperson, really.
G: Yes.
HM: For the community.
G: For the, yeah.
HM: For expressing what is on the mind and hearts of the community, so you see yourself as,
not having to consciously think “I’m that, I need to,” but do you . . .
G: I consciously think about that.
HM: Do you consciously think about that?
G: I actually consciously think about it, yes. ‘Cause when I do a song I consciously think about
the impact that it’s going to have and I consciously think about me relaying what is happening to
my community or my country.
HM: So, it is a conscious process.
G: Yeah. When I did “The Sinkin’ Ship.” I did “Captain, this ship is sinkin’,” it had to do with the
country, it had to do with I just akin the country metaphorically to a luxury liner because of the
amount of money we had and then things just start falling apart, and they’re sinking, it’s like the
Titanic, filled with all this luxury everything. But what I’m doing, what I was doing, is expressing
the way I feel about my country and the way other people would feel about the country.
HM: It wasn’t just you. I mean, when you were singing that song you’re thinking of yourself as
being just more than you.
G: It’s communal. It’s communal.
HM: A communal emotion or thought.
G: Yes. Yes.
�13
HM: And it comes across that way.
G: Actually, it’s a national . . .
HM: A national . . .
G: National. Yeah.
HM: . . . thing. But it comes across that way, I just didn’t know if you consciously thought about
it.
G: Oh yeah, consciously. Very consciously. You know I’m a very conscious person whenever I
write. I consciously set out to do what I do. Very, very, very.
HM: Beyond just the words and the music.
G: Beyond just the words and the music.
HM: “What am I, who am I speaking for, where’s this saying, how are people . . .”
G: That’s the first thing that I do when I write a song. I say, “Who am I speaking to? What do I
want to achieve with this that I am doing here?”
HM: So you’re thinking on a very large . . .
G: I write songs really to achieve no monetary, you know, no kind of monetary . . .
HM: Commercial.
20:06
G: No. No kind of monetary feedback. No kind of monetary gain. I wrote it because I think it’s
the right thing for me to do. I think that this is what I want to do, this I what my talent should be
used to do.
HM: But, and not just for you . . .
G: Yes.
HM: . . . right? It’s for a larger group.
G: Yes, yes. For the better good of a lot of people.
HM: Yeah. So you’re thinking on a very broad level.
G: Yes, I do.
�14
HM: As a writer. Which isn’t always true. You know, some artists are just, “I’m just trying to
express what I’m feeling in this moment and whether it’s for me or for someone else, then that’s
out of my hands,” but you’re doing it in a, you’re consciously thinking about it.
G: A lot of times I’m, yeah, most of the times that is what I do, but I have written songs that are
just purely for my own, you know.
HM: It’s something you wanted to say . . .
G: Yeah. I just wanted to say that.
HM: . . . at that moment.
G: Yeah.
HM: I’m going to get onto some other influ-, other writing questions, but because I interviewed . .
.
G: Clevin Romero.
HM: Surpriser, to talk about that because he’s from Mayaro as well.
G: He’s from Mayaro. He’s one of the . . .
HM: He’s obviously older, twenty years older than you.
G: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And he’s one of the people I knew when I was a child. When I was a
child he was one of the first calypsonians that I was exposed to. People like him and Zandolee
and Superior himself. Superior and my mother grew up together, you know.
HM: Ah, no.
G: Yeah, they grew up together as children. And those are the people I was exposed to as a
child.
HM: Were you influenced by. And then when you wanted to begin your singing those people
were active already.
G: Those people were already active, yeah, and I was fortunate enough to meet Kitchener and
Sparrow and Stalin and these guys.
HM: The Young Brigade people.
G: At a very young age, when I was ten years old, I’m talking about I met these guys.
HM: Well, he said he remembers he’d just hear this voice . . .
G: Yes.
HM: . . . saying, “Clevin, Mr. Clevin,” . . .
�15
G: Yes, yes.
HM: . . . and turned around and it was you . . .
G: It was me.
H: . . . and you wanted help getting up on the stage.
G: Yes, yes, yes.
HM: . . . but he remembered that. And I‘ll show just a little clip of him, I recorded of him
performing . . .
G: Ah, oh wow.
HM: . . . about two weeks ago in his daughter’s home.
G: Yes, in . . .
HM: In Mount Lambert.
G: Oh, he was up in Mount Lambert?
HM: Yeah, he came up for a doctor’s appointment.
G: Okay, okay.
HM: So we sat for two or three hours and he sang.
G: Yeah. Yeah. He has . . .
HM: He hasn’t lost anything.
G: . . . a wealth. No, no. He still remembers everything. He’s very good.
HM: And his songs . . .
G: I go to him still when I want to know certain things.
HM: Oh, well, good. You’re still in touch.
G: Oh yeah, yeah. I go and look for him all the time. He’s right there in Mayaro.
HM: You’ll have to tell him that we were together.
G: I will tell him.
HM: So was your music infl-, is your music influenced by your time in the U.S., beyond, outside
of country music?
G: Yes. Yeah. I mean . . .
�16
HM: How?
G: . . . all the time that I’m there I’m looking at what’s happening in America.
HM: So, you’re looking at the news.
G: Yeah.
HM: And what’s going on in the U.S.
G: And what’s happening in America. Yeah. I wrote a song. I’ll see if I can play it.
G: (Sings and plays guitar.) America, be careful of the things you do/America the whole world
have their eyes on you/Don’t be, take some advice, my friend/Don’t feel you know it all/As
there’ll be no one around to pick you up when you fall/So you invaded Grenada. You aid the
rebels of Nicaragua/And you deem yourself the protector of democracy? Ooh-whee/But be
careful of what you do ‘cause the whole world looking at you/The Bible says to your own self
you must be true/So America, be careful of the things you do/America this whole world has their
eyes on you/Take some advice, my friend. Don’t feel you know it all/As there’ll be no one
around to pick you up when you fall.
HM: Oh, yeah. Oh, well, that speaks to me. (Laughs.)
G: Yeah.
HM: But it’s good to hear something from someone who’s outside.
G: Yeah.
HM: Or you’re inside and outside.
G: Yeah.
HM: But that gives some perspective on how you’re viewed.
G: Yeah.
HM: By friends, by people, someone who’s friendly.
G: Yeah.
HM: Not an enemy.
G: No, no.
HM: Someone who’s friendly and saying “hey,” you know?
G: “Have to be careful” is good advice in my songs.
HM: Pay attention.
�17
G: That’s exactly what I was saying.
HM: Yeah.
G: You know, because . . .
HM: So, I mean, what’s going on in the U.S., just in terms of socially, politically shows up
sometimes in your songs.
G: Yes. It does.
HM: So, do you play anything besides guitar? Is guitar your main instrument?
G: Yeah. I don’t play anything else. I mean, I fool around with everything else.
HM: But that’s your main instrument . . .
G: Yes.
HM: . . . when you’re writing.
G: Just play the guitar.
24:50
HM: Are you pretty much self-taught? Did you take any lessons?
G: Not one. I’ve never taken a lesson in anything. I just did it all by myself. Whatever I learned,
I’m always thinking now about doing it because I think that I need to improve my guitar playing.
HM: It might help?
G: Yeah.
HM: I had a friend that, who had written, was an established songwriter.
G: Yeah.
HM: But he went and took guitar lessons, I was so impressed by this, to learn some new chords.
G: Yeah, well that’s . . .
HM: So he could stretch his songwriting.
G: Well that’s what I want to do.
HM: That’s a really good idea.
�18
G: That’s what I want to do.
HM: And it ended up in one of the songs that we wrote, so.
G: Yeah.
HM: So when you’re writing, how do you start? Is just it in your head? Are you writing in your
head? Do you pick up the guitar? What’s the process?
G: I write in my head. I do it in my head, and then I, when I have an idea put it on some . .
HM: On a tape.
G: . . . my tape and stuff. And then I go and I put it on, then I sit down and really write it.
HM: So you get the basic idea down.
G: Get the basic idea.
HM: You’re sitting with the guitar and a piece of paper and write?
G: Sometimes I sit with the guitar and sometimes I don’t. Sometimes I’m traveling somewhere
and I get an idea and I just something down and then I sit down after a while. On that phone
right there I have . . .
HM: You use, on the phone. Yeah, use your memo function?
G: Before the phone I used to walk around with a small tape, but I don’t have to do that anymore
because of the phone . . .
HM: I do. I started using the phone, too.
G: The phone, the phone, has . . . you don’t have to walk with anything if you’ve got the phone.
HM: You don’t have to worry about the cassettes.
G: Yeah, and you put that thing on there and then when I sit down I just write after that.
HM: Is there a certain time of day or location that is better for you is it . . .?
G: Not really.
HM: Anytime?
G: I like to be quiet. Once I’m quiet, anytime.
HM: Get away from noise and distraction . . .
G: As long as I’m quiet.
HM: . . . television.
�19
G: Well, I could have the television on and write, that’s not a problem. I could do that.
HM: But, so, when you mean quiet what do you mean?
G: I mean away from people and stuff.
HM: Ah, just the . . .
G: To be with myself.
HM: What’s going on. Be by yourself.
G: Yeah. To be by myself.
HM: You need to be by yourself. Time of day isn’t important to you?
G: No.
HM: Do you write anytime, it just depends . . .
G: I write anytime.
HM: Do you have ideas, do you wake up in the night with ideas?
G: Yes, I do.
HM: “I better write this down.”
G: That I do, yes. I put, I do ideas on little matchboxes on anything, anything, anything.
HM: Anything that you have to put down.
G: Just scribble it down so in the morning I wouldn’t lose the idea.
HM: So, the idea won’t be lost. Yeah, that’s happened to me.
G: I guess all writers do that kind of thing.
HM: Does being a performer, because you’re also a performer, . . .
G: Oh, yeah.
HM: . . . does being a performer influence how you write? Versus a person who is just writing for
other people all the time. So, knowing that you might perform the song, or your experiences as
a performer, do they affect how your . . .
G: Yes, it does. Yes, it does.
HM: How does that work for you?
�20
G: While I am writing the song, I am visualizing the atmosphere that I’m going to be doing it at,
and also visualizing what kind of response I’m going to have from that audience. Now when you
write a song like I said before, I ask myself, “Who am I writing this for?” If I’m writing a song for
American it’s not going to be the same as if I’m writing it for Trinidad. But then in a general
sense you, I write for people, so I would write a song in a general sense that would encompass
everybody, you know, so that’s how it is. But sometimes you do a song that is people specific.
That is . . .
HM: To the group of people . . .
G: Yes.
HM: . . . that you are writing for.
G: You have to understand the culture in which you’re doing the song for.
HM: So, do you imagine yourself onstage, singing the song while you’re writing it?
G: Yes.
HM: Okay.
G: Yes, I do.
HM: Now, I’ve never done that and I spoke to someone the other day who even imagines, she’s
gonna imagine what she’s wearing.
G: Yeah.
HM: For that particular song. I mean, so it’s even more involved. But I just never even
considered . . .
G: Well, sometimes the wearin’ thing comes into play long after I do the song. The wearin’ thing
will come into play.
(Microphone is repositioned.)
HM: What you’re gonna . . .
G: Yeah. Yeah.
HM: . . . actually have on.
G: Yeah. Well, that comes into play a long time after.
HM: So, you’re still writing, that’s obvious. You’re still writing songs.
G: Oh yeah, yeah. Of course.
HM: Well, I’m glad we’re . . .
�21
G: I’m getting ready to go in the recording studio right now.
HM: Are you doing, are you working on a new project?
G: Yes, I am.
HM: Great. I look forward to hearing that. Does it have any particular direction? Overall, like . . .
G: Well, it’s calypso.
HM: It’s a calypso album.
G: It’s gonna be done for the Carnival season.
HM: It’ll be done for the Carnival season.
G: But even though I write songs during the Carnival season which is the high time of the
calypso, for the calypsonian here . . .
HM: Let’s lean in a little bit because of that blower.
G: Even though I’m doing it for the calypso season I still write it with a consciousness that
Carnival is only a few days. And my songs has to be . . .
HM: You want it to last more than just, beyond Carnival
G: Has to be written in a certain way that it’s going to go way beyond Carnival.
HM: Yeah. That’s interesting.
G: That’s how I do it. And that’s how it’s done, yeah.
HM: Is there anything that, I’ve covered all my questions, is there anything that I haven’t
covered, or we haven’t covered with my questions that you want to say about your writing, or
what’s important, or how you write?
30:05
G: Well, no, I’m, we have said basically everything but primarily I’m a conscious writer. I write
conscious songs regardless to, in what genre I do it.
HM: Conscious, meaning?
G: Conscious meaning songs that would make people sit, and sit up, and listen or sit up and
think about what I’m saying
HM: You’re consciously thinking about their reaction . . .
G: About their reaction.
�22
HM: . . . and their response.
G: So they would sit up and think and know that what I’m doing. They would sit up and say . . .
HM: You want to make people think.
G: Yes.
HM: No matter what genre you’re in.
G: What genre of music. Yeah. They would just know, you know, sit up and take note about
what I’m saying. It’s like Bob Marley’s songs, most of Bob’s songs are songs, that is, they’re
about reality, songs that are realistic, you know. A lot of country songs are like that as well.
HM: Yeah. I think that’s another, . . .
G: That’s why I’m in debt to country music.
HM: . . . a common thing between the two is, as I’ve thought about things, is they both deal with
real life, or everyday . . .
G: Yes.
HM: . . . experience. It’s not the typical pop music, you know, up in the air, “I’ll love you for a
thousand years.”
G: Yeah. Yeah.
HM: You know, kind of, that’s part of the appeal of pop music, right?
G: Yeah.
HM: It kind of takes you away into something way out there, but . . .
QG: Yes.
HM: But country’s rooted . . .
G: Is rooted.
HM: . . . in the immediate.
G: Yes. And so is calypso.
HM: And so is calypso.
G: So is calypso.
HM: Sometimes as much as even to the point of talking about the price of milk going up . . .
�23
G: Of course.
HM: . . . or whatever. The taxi fare or something.
G: Yeah.
HM: Or a particular politician.
G: Country will do that, too. Country will do exactly that.
HM: Yeah, that wonderful Harlan Howard song, “I’m Busted.”
G: “I’m Busted,” I mean, I don’t know . . .
HM: You don’t know that one? I can’t sing it for you, but it’s about everything being too
expensive, my car’s broke . . .
G: Of course.
HM: My kids need shoes to wear
G: That’s country. Yeah. Yeah. Merle Haggard “The Gambler,” man. Not Kenny Roger’s
“Gambler.” Merle Haggard. You know, “A gambler never wins.”
HM: Yeah. So it’s a specific situation.
G: Yeah.
HM: And people that it’s talking about. That’s another thing. It’s specific, it’s not about a general
person out there. It’s about this person.
G: (Sings and plays guitar.) Fights in the morning time for breakfast/Fights in the evening, too/
You never really took the time off to appreciate the things I do/I never leave you lonely, but you
listen to your friends/This torture is getting too much for me, baby, so this is where we end/Even
though I know leavin’ you behind is not one of the things I really want to do, leavin’ you behind is
not one of the things I really want to do/But it’s me, only you, only you . . . (Speaks.) I’m
forgetting that.
HM: Yeah, yeah, but . . .
G: (Sings and plays.) Force me to do the things I have to do. (Speaks.) I’m forgetting that song.
HM: Yeah, that’s alright.
G: (Sings and plays.) Leaving you behind is not one of the things I really love to do/But I know
it’s only you that . . .
G: (Speaks.) I can’t really remember it right this minute. See, when you write these things, you
wrote so much songs. I write hundreds of songs.
HM: Yeah. When you have that many the lyrics . . .
�24
G: And then you’re tryin’ to bring it up, and you can’t remember it. But those are all personal
songs.
HM: Those are all, you know, like a real-life situation.
G: But your real-life situation applies to other people as well.
HM: Somebody, I heard this said, is, and they were talking about why love is so often the
subject of songs and the reason is, he called it the universal specific, so everybody can relate to
it, but it’s about a specific, you write . . .
G: Yes.
HM: . . . about the specific heartbreak, . . .
G: Yes.
HM: . . . difficulty, but if you write it in a certain way.
G: Yes. Yes. But at the end of the day your circumstance is not unique to you and that’s why
records sell so much because other people understand.
HM: But country and calypso I think do that particularly by being very specific about what they’re
talking about . . .
G: Yes. Yes.
HM: . . . that, no, I might not have been in that person’s exact situation, but I can relate to . . .
G: Right.
HM: . . . I can relate to Sparrow singing . . .
G: Sometimes it might very well could be that you too have been in that very . . .
HM: In that situation. But even Sparrow singing “No, Doctor, No,” . . .
G: Yeah. Yeah.
HM: . . . you know? That’s totally, I don’t know about, you know, that situation, but, Dr. Eric
Williams and the taxi fare going up, but I get it.
G: Yeah. Yeah. Of course.
HM: And the country music situation. You haven’t been in Merle Haggard’s situation . . .
G: Right.
HM: . . . exactly.
�25
G: But just listening to his song . . .
HM: You can totally relate to it.
G: And we relate to it. And that’s what I love about country music in general and I love his
songs. But most country singers sing songs, the ones that write their own songs that is, sing
songs about their life.
35:00
HM: Yeah, “the Coalminer’s Daughter,” Loretta Lynn.
G: Of course. Lorette Lynn. That’s great.
HM: Or Dolly Parton’s . . .
G: Dolly Parton. Right.
HM: “Coat of Many Colors.” That was her real-life situation.
G: Of course, of course.
HM: The other children made fun of her.
G: And that one I was doing about Mayaro just now. That’s my personal experience. That’s how
you write.
HM: Well, this has been wonderful. I really appreciate your time.
G: Well I’m happy, and I’m happy that you, you know, I hope you get a lot out of it.
HM: Well, I did.
G: And any time when you’re here. Just call me. You could come down, we can go down to the
house.
HM: We’ll do that.
G: If you ever want to go up to Mayaro. Ray wants us to go.
HM: Oh yeah?
G: So if you ever want to go up to Mayaro.
HM: I’d love to. I know it’s a pretty good trip.
G: It’s okay.
HM: But I’d love to see more of the island. I’ve just been in Port of Spain and . . .
�26
G: Right.
HM: . . . a little bit outside. So I’d like to . . .
G: Right.
HM: . . . I’d like to see more of it, but we’ll definitely connect.
G: Any old time.
HM: We’ve got a strong connection with the country thing.
G: Oh, yeah. Thanks. Thanks. I do. I love country music.
HM: I’m going to turn it off.
End of interview
�
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
J. Hunter Moore
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Gypsy (Winston Peters)
Location
The location of the interview
Queens Park West, Port of Spain, Trinidad and Tobago
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
35:52
Time Summary
A summary of an interview given for different time stamps throughout the interview
Subject sings, plays guitar: 1:22, 7:35, 9:30, 13:22, 15:34, 22:58, 32:16
-----------------------------------
Notes about interview: the subject quietly plays guitar throughout the interview. Beginning at 28:26 a leaf blower is heard in the background.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Gypsy Interview
Description
An account of the resource
Actual name: Winston Peters
Date of birth: October 20, 1952
Place of birth: Trinidad and Tobago
Lived abroad: since 1968 has divided time between U.S. and T&T, naturalized U.S. citizen
Awards (as of 2018): 1997 National Calypso Monarch, Nine times National Extempo Monarch
Best songs/best-known songs: “Sinkin’ Ship,” “Little Black Boy,” “Soca Train”
---------------------------------
Individuals heard during interview:
G: Gypsy
HM: Hunter Moore
----------------------------------
Trinidad and Tobago terms and expressions as used in the interview:
BG: British Guyana
Cobo: turkey vulture
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
October 25, 2017
-
https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/40461/archive/files/988bad1ea6a7c30792863f023d6d85f0.jpg?Expires=1712793600&Signature=jlPZcDaGs6wTDhfX63YAz2pt09iJqs2kVdiBRBL0%7EcknavdqEc9Olef6Utu7u2p6tRx4Wul06MktpEvEvEhGp%7Ezd8DevWYroxo%7EoAFtrF3Q9%7Ew1cLIiFQ83EjRkkqy5IQXt8KbK4pbtTeNufglExXA2mdI9bmR15c7fr-oeCXZNiyhehGwI7Q5axxijskNrtrJQsxa%7Eapott0UEXhU9nLI4bWJXsjD3tlO70NlJXScMQndE9qpjYbM-9uqE3sUYM9NFidsbmqFu%7EjB2mNwrCk5fuXwk-71hib7LDDBv9pIqQf-R5KjqoYGZRQrl5jNzIEiUbhK3mICHgmQD-XkM3-Q__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM
9da46e825cfa25a69de38d1f85a0b24c
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Hindu Prince
https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/40461/archive/files/52235698cc688d3e80286b18194a21ed.mp3?Expires=1712793600&Signature=bVWwW3rTEYuV6dgAt94ooIultJj3bmKkPnIeyHkncTXTSWFu7gHkA9%7EwCo7gEu1qrZfeyNg-4Bh5iKU2oiH4-3mT6u-JF1pRfLzTGdzk%7EeNVvNGYa7wnk-59%7ElLrJF2w0bxaj2tmuduLXXH27iuQIobOCz9Fr39n72lhk3g2gH8nc0tayZONMwtKDsC402k5JLoLVe2Ie8G637YbWQRgbujdE3CPLf3ZNnCvT5faJJr8Vrs5US2HGfoPI%7EAt%7EyyMOZSMEmMdkxJwjpgvREJpJx5M0Ub789PfFgAxudUluH2bfvbaTGjTt0-Np8jKmFlkYQE78kmOKBIPWHz1IiJzww__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM
e712e7c2fff6f22a03488d02976b4113
https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/40461/archive/files/64b2d72a53ae7db499cb4e1e311c42fb.pdf?Expires=1712793600&Signature=gFg2BG%7EnirviASOAO2Uk%7E6JwTQ0JGp0VcewLF2rg%7Eiq%7E0TuUqeZANMXhx71Blc648ugeDjqQP-FW%7EI5hbLMmsSIP8lbu%7EBn1iChRwtRrVDD04CQAOrfwz%7EybUS7D2Ka3cDJpEzh%7EDddur%7EAzdoXy4gNb5ta3j%7EW3NqhGcW76BslUjq8d-7i--j8OrExflGUYIzxR0KDjlvdLqJEL8r4HkdZ--nx40gb%7EHKiQJCcj7uGS1OoruwP2eNVbm2J1fi2O7iIoZA4-b98YmkR%7EEGV7g2RE-v0YY3G3h43ZEFoB0HD4S%7EQJfg2uGOzgRotwClinOTfoaku5ruNBJ6icSkU%7EYQ__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM
368c04bf1d38cec85d1743e083f59bc3
PDF Text
Text
Interview subject: Hindu Prince
Interviewer: J. Hunter Moore
Date: February 25, 2018
Location of interview: Subject’s home in Flanagin Town, Trinidad and Tobago
Actual name: Kenneth Nathaniel
Other sobriquets/nicknames: Prince, Chicken Hawk (early)
Date of birth: December 22, 1950
Place of birth:
Awards (as of March 2018): Calypso Monarch National Semi-finals (twice), Humorous Calypso
Finals
Best songs/best-known songs: “False Prophet,” “Heartless,” “De Gambler,” Animal Doctor,”
“Ram Goat Mentality”
-------------------------------------Individuals heard during interview:
HP: Hindu Prince
HM: Hunter Moore
--------------------------------------Trinidad and Tobago terms and expressions as used in the interview:
Bulla: a gay man
Coki-eye: cockeyed, watching out of the corner of one’s eye
Doh: don’t
Dougla: an individual of African and Indian descent
Eh: ain’t, can also add emphasis at the end of a phrase
Kentucky: Kentucky Fried Chicken, popular American fast food chain in Trinidad. Prince’s
reference to buying a song at Kentucky is a metaphor for singers who buy songs that are
quickly produced and lack personality.
Lickrish: greedy
Mamaguy: a person who uses intimidating behavior to accomplish his or her objectives
�2
Mih: my
Mihself: myself
Pukney: homemade gun (per Hindu Prince)
Sampat: an agreement (per Hindu Prince)
Sans humanite’: a traditional calypso melodic refrain, often used for extempo lyrics
UTT: University of Trinidad and Tobago
Whey: what, where
----------------------------------------Subject sings: 16:15, 18:00, 19:20, 21:17, 23:14, 41:33, 42:04, 45:58
----------------------------------------Notes about interview: the original recording has been edited for length
----------------------------------------Interview: (recording begins mid-conversation)
HM: And then I’ll check it before we actually start. And your date of birth?
HP: 22nd December, 1950.
HM: December 22, 1950.
HP: Yeah.
HM: Have you always lived in Trinidad and Tobago?
HP: (Missing six syllables) Tobago (Laughs.)
HM: Always in Trinidad.
HP: Yeah. Flanigan Town, in fact. I lived in Jerningham Junction for one year. That was the
railway thing when they transfer mih father. For one year.
HM: For one year.
HP: Yeah. But otherwise Flanigan town.
Visitor: (Four missing syllables) Belmont?
HP: Eh?
�3
Visitor: Belmont?
HP: No. Jerningham Junction.
Visitor: Ah, junction.
HP: (Five missing syllables) that where they, all the trains used to meet.
HM: That’s where they used to meet. This is where it branched off?
HP: Rio Claro’s train will go there. San Fernando train, Port of Spain train. That was the . . .
HM: Main junction?
HP: . . . main junction. Jerningham . . .
HM: And it was called Jerningham Junction.
HM: Jerningham Junction.
HM: Okay. And what are your best-known songs, would you say?
HP: “False Prophet.”
HM: “Paul’s Prophet,” like Moses was a prophet?
HP: Yeah. You will hear a piece. You know? (Laughs.)
HM: “Paul’s Prophet.”
HP: Yeah. Now, Mr. Hunter. I did a lot of songs, and, you know, all mih songs went down good,
you know. But this one, but, right now people rating “Gambler” as the better song.
HM: “De Gambler. Yeah, I saw that online ‘cause , see that’s, there’s a YouTube online of that
one.
HP: Yeah. Right? But “False Prophet” is ah . . .
HM: You like that better?
HP: It says a lot, you see. You want to hear it, you know?
HM: Are there any others that you want me to put down? This will go, when I type up the
interview I’ll put this information at the top.
HP: The first year I sang with Kitchener, I did a song called “Animal Doctor.” That was a double
entendre.
HM: “Animal Doctor.”
�4
HP: And I do, I had a song about incest, “Ram Goat Mentality.”
HM: What’s that again?
HP: “Ram Goat Mentality.”
HM: How’s Ramgood spelled?
HP: R-A-M G-O-A-T.
HM: G-O-A-D?
HP: A-T.
HM: A-, Ah. Ram . . .
HP: R-A-M G-O
HM: A-T.
HP: A-T.
HM: Like ram goat.
HP: Yeah. Ram goat.
HM: Ram goat.
HP: You know how a ram goat does behave. And you know . . .
HM: Like a ram.
HP: You know how a ram does behave?
HM: Like butts, butt heads.
HP: That was our ancestral fathers. You know?
HM: “A Ram Goat Mentality.”
HP: Yeah. I did a song called “Heartless.”
HM: “Heartless”?
HP: Yeah. I was showin’ how people could live without heart. The kind of thing goin’ on in the
country. You know, just . . .
Visitor: You can see that now.
HP: . . . just, how you call (three missing syllables) heartless.
�5
HM: And I’ll ask you, help me remember, but I don’t know if you have any CDs I could buy. You
know, just of your work. Anything?
HP: I don’t have any available, but . . .
HM: Or where I could find your work, you know.
HP: I’ll get, well, how soon you goin’ back?
HM: A week from Tuesday.
HP: A week from, I’ll call Short Pants and he have it.
HM: I know Short Pants.
HP: I lost all my CDs. A little (missing syllable) visit me, eh? (To family member.) (Four missing
syllables), let me ask you something.
HM: So, also I was going to write down. Do you, did you win any crowns or place in the semifinals or anything like that?
HP: The first year I sang I make the semi-finals, 1970, and then I made it back with “Gambler.”
HM: So, in 1970 you were in the semis.
HP: Yeah.
HM: And then also later with “De Gambler”?
HP: “De Gambler”
HM: What year was that?
HP: (Speaks to family member.) What year was “De Gambler,” do you know?
Family member: ’91 or ’92? I’ll go find it.
HP: (To family member.) You mind check on that for me and I will get it.
HM: I’ll put that down. So . . .
HP: And I made the humorous final, but I forget the song when I went on stage.
HM: Humorous finals.
HP: Boy, and they had me (three missing syllables).
HM: Oh, that’s tough. To be in the finals, yeah?
HP: And I can’t remember my own thing, boy. I start the song . . .
�6
HM: And it just blanked out.
HP: I get a blank.
(Microphone is repositioned.)
HP: But Blakie tell me something, but I ain’t believe this when he said them fellas (two missing
syllables) thing, you know.
HP: I said “Blakie.” He said but, I, he cussed me, he said, “Boy, I’m tellin’ you (three missing
syllables) they fix you.”
M: What were some of the tents. You sang in Kitchener.
HP: Alright.
HM: What other tents?
HP: I started with Victory. 1970.
HM: Victory. 1970.
HP: That tent run for three years.
HM: Three.
HP: That was where Hyatt is now, boy. Port Services Club. Then in 1965 I went with Revue.
(HM note: Prince must have meant 1975 since he started in 1970.)
HM: 1965. Revue.
HP: Right? Now we had some tents run for one year. They didn’t make it after.
HM: Yeah. They didn’t make it.
4:56
HP: Then I went Kingdom of the Wizard. That was William Munro. Right? Then I sang with
Spectakula Forum the first three years.
HM: That was a great one.
HP: I was one of the fellas there. Right? I sang with Malju. That was Errol and . . .
HM: What is that one?
HP: Malju.
HM: Malju?
�7
HP: Errol Fabian. I know he, that a fella you should . . .
HM: I don’t know that one. How’s that spelled? MHP: M-A-L-J. (To family member.) Malju? (Two missing syllables) M-A-L-J . . .
Family member: A-L-J-U (Note: correct spelling in Maljo.)
HP: Eh?
HM: A-L
Family member: M-A-L-J-U
HM: J-U? Malju? That was the name of the tent?
HP: Yeah. That was the name of the tent. Now Malju is a cu-, is a thing that they say, “Wear
blue.” Like bad eyes. That what it means, eh?
HM: So like, if you had the glasses on, if you were blind? Is that what you’re saying?
HP: No, now in Trinidad it has certain thing, like somebody watch your plan kind of thing.
Family member: (A missing sentence.)
HM: It’s an expression.
HP: (Speaks to family member.) Bring me for me now. Hey (two missing words) bring me two
book. (Speaks to HM.) You ever read George Maharaj’s books?
(Microphone is repositioned.)
HP: On calypso?
HM: No.
HP: (To family member.) Bring me two books. George Maharaj. (Speaks to HM.) He’s a
Trinidadian, but he’s living in Canada.
HM: Oh, George Maharaj. Somebody told me his name.
HP: I have two of the books here.
HM: I have to look for that.
HP: I own one of the (missing syllable).
(Recorder was stopped and started again to adjust volume. Recording begins in mid-sentence.)
(Edit.)
�8
HP: (Four missing syllables), you know?
HM: So, we stopped with Malju. Just you were giving me the tents.
HP: Yeah. Then I was . . .
HM: Anything after that?
HP: . . . then I went with Kaiso House.
HM: Kaiso. Kaiso House.
HP: That was the last tent I sang good.
HM: The last time you were singing in the tents was at Kaiso House?
HP: Kaiso House, yeah.
HM: And when would, about when did that, was that, would you say? What year, at Kaiso
House?
Family member: 2014.
HPL: Eh?
Family member: 2014.
HP: That was “Gambler.” No, but I started before. That was when I, now, next thing again.
When they used to, anytime a promoter looked to open a calypso tent in town, he really looked
for a balanced cast. You know, because, I was one of the persons they always look for. To
make up the cast. And then I went, but I went in Kaiso House when De Lamo and Luta won the
crown. We did, that the first year. That was in . . .
HM: That would have been the first year.
HP: . . . City Hall.
HM: Oh, that was in City Hall?
HP: Yeah.
HM: That was in City Hall.
HP: That was when Kaiso House started.
HM: That’s when they started. The first year.
HP: Then I was with them up in Deluxe. I went in some, I did some, I did a good three years with
them. Kaiso House.
�9
HM: I went to see them this year.
HP: I did a good few years with Kaiso House.
HM: And then “De Gambler” was in 2014.
HP: Yeah.
HM: At Kaiso House.
HP: Yeah.
HM: Was that the last year you performed?
HP: No. I didn’t sing the next year, but I sing the year after that.
HM: 2016.
HP: Yeah. You will hear what I did then. (Laughs.)
HM: So that’s almost, that’s recent, yeah. I mean, that was just year before last.
HP: Well, them three years I didn’t sing after that.
HM: Well, I just have questions. Anything else, in terms of accomplishments that you want to
mention? That was the information that I wanted, you know, in terms of competitions, and things
like that, but it’s also really good to get the tents that you sang in. Anything else that you’re
particularly proud of, in terms of recognition that you want me to include?
HP: Well, I am proud of to sing in the days with Lord Kitchener, Pretender, Terror . . .
HM: Yeah, the great ones.
HP: Stalin, Black Stalin, Shadow. To come through these fellows.
HM: Those great, great guys.
HP: You know? That, to me, that is, . . .
HM: That’s an accomplishment by itself.
HP: That worth more than money. You know? Because it have plenty of young calypsonians
now that like to be. Pretender? The year I was singing in the tent.
Family member: Power.
HP: Power. You know, all the old, all the old. (Laughs.)
HM: Great ones.
Family member: Power was your boy, you know.
�10
HP: Power was mih partner, you know? He used to make sure and take me up Chaguanas and
make sure and drop me. You know?
HM: So, just to get to sing with those guys.
(Microphone is repositioned.)
HP: Yeah, but that achieve, that to me, money ain’t worth it to me, because Pretender, the year
I was singing in the tent, the song going down good. Now I (two missing syllables) always
getting encore. They always call me back on stage. That why promoters used to look for me.
HM: Because you were popular with the crowd.
HP: With the crowd. And I wasn’t getting the encore. And Pretender pull me. He said, “Two line
in the last chorus you ought to change. He said, “But, I ain’t telling you what to put there. He
said, “You could compose. Go home and think.” You know? He said, “You go home and think.”
HM: Think about it.
9:54
HP: And, well, I go home and I study. And I get mih two lines and I go and get an encore. He
come up to me and he hug me up. He said, “See what I tell you? He said, “I know what I could
of tell you to put there.”
HM: But he wanted you to do it.
HP: He wanted me, Terror, now, (seven missing syllables). At that time I had long hair, and the
hair kind of around and Terror called me back and fixed my hair and things for me, boy.
HM: So, you were getting mentored . . .
HP: Yeah.
HM: By these men and taught (two or three missing syllables).
HP: When Stalin, when I went to Kitchener . . .
Family member: (Missing sentence).
HP: . . . when I went with Kitchener and Stalin brungs me up. I didn’t know Stalin. I younger,
boy, you know? And Stalin pulled me and said, “You is a good kaisonian.” You know, he ain’t
been (one or two missing syllables) a few years.
HM: When he heard you.
HP: Yeah, he said I, he said “You a good kaisonian.” That was when I sing “Animal Doctor,” you
will hear just now, right? And he tell him, he used to go on, he was the emcee. Stalin was . . .
�11
HM: He was the emcee.
HP: . . . a boss of an emcee, yeah.
HM: Which tent was this?
HP: Revue.
HM: At Revue.
HP: With Kitchener. He was the emcee. And (three missing syllables) “Animal Doctor,” the
double entendre? (Four missing syllables) he said, “This fella come and sing a clean song, but
all the words (two missing syllables).” That’s the way he used to talk, eh? When I finish and I get
mih encore and then I mash down de place. That was in Prince’s building where NAPA is now?
They had the old building there that when the Queen, that was when the Queen days.
HM: Oh, is that near the savannah?
HP: That was where we used to have the ball . . .
HM: That was across from the savannah, where NAPA is now.
HP: Yeah, where NAPA is. They used have all the party and thing in the . . .
HM: I’ve seen a picture.
HP: Okay. So, real old and (seven missing syllables) when I done singing I get all the encore,
and he said, “What I tellin’ you (five missing syllables), you know? But my joy was to be with
Surpriser, too. That one of the first persons who recognized me as a little boy and started carry
me Balmain. He give me fifty cent! That why I try to get him to tell you about the fifty cent. Fifty
cent I get when we finished Balmain.
HM: That was a lot:
HP: We used walk, you must hear, from Balmain to Couva. Those days we eh have transport.
We walk from Balmain to Couva (a one hour journey on foot, according to Hindu Prince).
HM: You walked, yeah.
HP: Fifty cent I got. That was first paying calypso tent there.
HM: That was the first paying calypso tent, yeah, for you.
HP: Right? But before I was with Surpriser, they had a children’s show, Auntie Kay. You know
about Auntie Kay?
HM: Oh, Auntie Kay! I’ve heard of that, yeah.
HP: I make second prize when I went with Auntie Kay. But that time, I had, before Hindu Prince,
I give mih name Chicken Hawk.
�12
HM: Oh, that was your name, Chicken Hawk.
HP: That was mih name. But when I went in town you know and, a gentleman that does play
trumpet here, Conrad Syriac, he said, “Boy, you would (two missing syllables). Blakie open that
tent.”
HM: He’ll like that?
HP: He take me in car and carry me. So, when I sing, now Blake used to cuss a lot, eh? He
said, he’s callin Fat Man, he was real fat, “Fat Man, come and hear f----n’ Indian brown!”
(Laughs.) I sing that song. I sing it about five times. So Blakie start to call for that. “Come and
hear this man. Come and hear this man.”
HM: “Come hear this,” yeah.
HP: I got a contract, no audition. First time I sing there, they sign me up one time for Victory
tent. And they advertise me, “Direct from India . . .
HM: (Laughs.)
HP: . . . Hindu Prince” And they give me that name. A musician of name of Lloyd Batiste. He
was in the army. Everybody lookin’ for a name for me. In (three missing syllables), up on Nelson
Street they had a club there. Punkins was the owner of the club, a big fat fella, and they lookin’
for a name and Lloyd Batiste come up with the name Hindu Prince. Blakie said (six missing
syllables).
HM: That’s a great name.
HP: If Blake said five words, three and a half is cuss.
Visitor: He was a real laugh, boy.
HP: Yeah. And so I, and they advertise, he put it in the newspaper, “Direct from India.” Some
Indian people come in the tent that night.
HM: And they start speaking Hindu to you.
HP: And they came to me and, “So, you really from India?” And I tell them (three missing
syllables), since I was little bitty lad. I said, “No, boy.” I said, “That is advertisement.” You
understand?
HM: Yeah, yeah.
HP: But I had good days in kaiso.
HM: You kept it, you kept the name, though.
HP: Hindu Prince?
HM: Hindu Prince. I mean . . .
�13
HP: Well, everybody recognize me by that.
HM: Everybody knew you by that name.
HP: Yeah. So, I couldn’t, I can’t . . .
HM: But it was, you know, I think it’s interesting because they saw that as being a positive thing
to identify you . . .
HP: As an Indian.
HM: As an Indian. That this was a good thing for your career. To say yes . . .
HP: Now, I’m a Presbyterian, eh? I’m a Presbyterian.
HM: Presbyterian, yeah?
HP: Yeah? You know? Some people said, You’re lyin’.” I said, “No.”
HM: They figured you were Hindu.
14:57
HP: That was a name they give me. But they gave me, as I say, they gave me that to recognize
that I’s a Indian.
HM: That you had Indian descent.
HP: Because Chicken Hawk (Laughs.)
HM: They’re like, “Ah, that doesn’t make you special.” But Hindu Prince, the name kind of made
you stand out.
HP: Yeah.
HM: But it’s also why they also said “Direct from India,” because it kind of made, they thought
that would make you special. People would be interested in you because of that.
HP: As an Indian.
HM: It wasn’t a negative thing.
HP: Then after mih first three years, people get to recognize I’s a good kaisonian.
HM: That you were good, yeah. And they would come see you because they knew you were
good.
�14
HP: Yeah. I always got, I always had that appreciation from the audience, eh, from the time I
enter the stage I get mih, you know? I always get mih encore and thing, you know? So . . .
HM: Do you want to sing something?
HP: Oh, I want to sing something.
HM: Yeah, you want to sing “Animal Doctor,” or something?
HP This one, I will start from 1970. (Strums guitar.)
HP: (Sings and plays guitar.) I must say that I’m proud and glad/To be living in Trinidad/I ain’t
care who say that I mad/But I glad that I living in Trinidad/You may read on the paper or some
maybe told/What going on in the outer world/Some of us may cry we catchin’ we tail/But look
outside and see if your conscience going to fail/Because in Africa, a place called Biafra/So
much people die off from hunger/Cry no more, though we may be poor/But think of Vietnam and
this endless war/And in India they cannot retreat/Millions there they can’t get nothing to eat/So
we in Trinidad should go down on we knee/And thank our Almighty. (Speaks.) That 1970.
HM: That’s 1970?
HP: Now, through the advertisement I come from India. I made a song . . .
HM: What was the name of that song?
HP: “No Hunger,” I used to call it. But people used to call it “Biafra.” Well, it during the time of
the Biafra war.
HM: Oh yeah, I remember.
HP: Right, that is when that song made. That song made about 1966. I had that song before . . .
HM: That was when you wrote it, yeah.
HP: That is, you know? I left school already. Then through the advertisement I make a song the
next year.
HP: And then I . . . (Sings and plays guitar.) Anywhere I pass people asking me, “Hindu Prince,
why you left India, your country?”/Anywhere I pass people asking me, “Hindu Prince, why you
left India, your country?”/I told them this is private business of mine/But if they insist, I will not
decline/I will tell you all the facts one by one/Then tell me if you’re satisfied when I done/In India
you can’t lime on the streets whether day or night/In India you can’t bus’ a man face if you feel
to fight/In India a real good fete is only now and then/But what I hate most of all in India, you
can’t make dougla children. (Laughs.)
HM: (Laughs.)
HP: You understand it, yeah?
HM: Yeah.
�15
HP: You have the creole up there?
HM: That’s what we were just talking, yeah.
HP: And then I came to . . .
HP: (Sings and plays guitar.) They say we are cosmopolitan/And second to no other nation/But I
say there’s a division/Between the negroes and the Indians/Plenty people look at this thing
simple/Thinking it eh causin’ us no trouble/But through this we can’t live happy/And we would
not have perfect unity/Why the Indians and negroes cannot unite/And try to build up the nation,
instead we would fight, my people/If this racial problem should spread everywhere/We’ll always
be divided because of the difference in our hair.
20:29
HM: (Laughs.) You’re using humor, you know, to discuss a serious topic. So, I mean, that’s
typical of calypso.
HP: Calypso humor, you know. Even though, no matter how serious your topic is . . .
(Edit.)
HP: . . you must put, you know, you have to, now it’s (five missing syllables) put a little pepper
(four missing syllables) the thing according to what . . .
HM: It’s makes it easier to hear and to understand. And sometimes that’s missing in calypso
now. People are serious.
HP: Yeah. What else (four missing syllables) you making a political speech.
HM: Yeah.
HP: Even if you must sing a political song. But let’s see how Chalkdust does do it. You know put
something that the people, you know, a nice little . . .
HM: “Arithmetic,” like the song, “Arithmetic,”
HP: Right.
HP: And when I went by Kitchener now. This the song I singing at the tent, Victory.
HP: (Sings and plays guitar.) It was always the wish of mih father/For me to be an animal
doctor/So he sent me to study in India/At the University of Calcutta/Well, imagine your boy
studying hard/To bring a degree back to Trinidad/Now with my treatment anyone I could
convince/So, to see me ask for Doctor Hindu Prince/A woman from quite down Penal
Rock/Begging me to help she out please, Doc/She said she had to hide from the
people/Because this pussycat would to put me in trouble/She said, “Doc, I know how mih cat
lickrish, it always thievin’ the neighbor fish/So them young boys and them plan a sampat/and
throw ah set of wood on she cat/People comin’ from near and far/To my office Cuncun Street in
�16
Arima/Animal of all description/Come in for my medication/A fella with a half-dead cock in he
hand/Said he tired, boy, by the obeah man/He said, “Doc, I would give you mih land and mih
shop/If you could only make this cock stand up.”
HM: (Laughs.) Stand up.
HP: Double Entendre.
HM: Sure, sure. You could say, “Oh, I was singing about this. I wasn’t singing about . . ." That’s
how it started, you know.
HP: You have to dress it.
HM: Yeah.
HP: I did the next double entendre. Well, I crossing years. I did this long after.
HP: (Sings and plays guitar.) My son was studying for exam/So, on the subject he wanted my
opinion/He was doing a survey/The boy working hard/To know who was the biggest family in
Trinidad/I said the Mouhamed, they sing in the alley/What about the Jones, the George, and the
Murray?/Then he told me ‘bout this visit down somewhere/He meet a big family with the
surname Bulla/He said while traveling somebody whisper, “The driver is a bulla.”/When he
inquire ‘bout the grocery owner/He and all is a bulla/It had some fella’s sitting on the
corner/Most of them was full-blooded bulla/He only met two Smith and one Greenwich/Was only
bulla living in that village.
HM: (Laughs.) Ah, that’s wonderful. (Note: Interviewer wasn’t familiar with the term “bulla” at the
time.) I’m really glad you’re getting some things down musically, and if you think of an illustration
as I ask you these questions please feel free to illustrate, but what age did you begin writing
calypso, roughly how old were you?
HP: About eleven, from eleven years, in school. When they tell us do composition, I writing
calypso.
HM: So, it was a school assignment and you wrote a calypso?
HP: I started to write calypso from school.
HM: Do you remember the first calypso you wrote? You would have sung, did you sing it in
class? Did you sing it for friends?
HP: I can’t remember it.
HM: Could be just a little piece, you know.
25:11
�17
(Sings and plays guitar.) I eh have no pukney/I eh have no gun/But if you only touch me/Mih aim
is to jump and run/But if you come peacefully/And accept my sympathy/Remember what
Chicken Hawk say/Every hog have his Saturday.
(Speaks.) That’s what I could remember. That is the chorus.
HM: That’s one of the first ones that you wrote?
HP: That’s the ca-,first song I write, mih, first song.
HM: So, you were Chicken Hawk from the beginning.
HP: Well, yeah. I put, I sang as Chicken Hawk.
(Edit.)
HM: So, what were you’re musical influences. What, when you, you know, what influenced your
musical tastes and, what were you listening to as a, what were you hearing as a child, but also
as you grew up?
HP: Well, you know . . .
HM: Just calypso? Or other things?
HP: Well, I believe so because I mean it was only a little radio you had in my time. It wasn’t like
now. And somehow or other I get to like calypso. None of my family . . .
HM: Did calypso?
HP: I had an uncle. He used to sing classical Indian songs. But (three missing syllables) had
nobody. But Blakie said something. Blakie used to say some spirit pass and take me (Laughs.)
to sing calypso. You know?
HM: How did you hear calypso?
HP: On radio. Saturday night you used to hear a half an hour program from the tent. I used to
make sure and listen to that. But other than that, I ain’t hear nothin’. I don’t know what really.
You know? I don’t know (six missing syllables) a guitar (six or seven missing syllables) guitar
(three missing syllables). (Laughs.) You understand?
(Rain begins falling on roof.)
HM: Do you think hearing the classical Hindu music influenced you at all?
HP: I really can’t say. I can’t say. But after hearing calypso I end up playing guitar with a Indian
orchestra. I played guitar with a parang side.
HM: A parang side?
HP: Yeah. Parang . . . you know? Christmas time? I played guitar with that. You know,
somehow or another I got music in me. You know?
�18
HM: A pan side? Pan?
HP: No.
HM: Parang?
HP: Parang. You know Christmas.
HM: Christmas music. Yeah. I like that, too.
HP: I used to play guitar. Guitar played. I play with an Indian orchestra every Friday, every
Saturday night and Sunday we outside.
HM: Did you ever write any other kind of music besides calypso? Or just calypso?
HP: No. Calypso, calypso. I never sung anybody, mihself and Merchant. You ever hear of
Merchant?
HM: Merchant?
HP: He die. But . . .
HM: He’s a calypsonian.
HP: Yeah.
HM: I think I have heard of him, yeah.
HP: One of the greatest composers they had. One of the (missing word). We were personal
friends. And he give me songs. He said, I never sing one of his songs.
HM: You never sing any of his songs.
HP: He give me songs. He give me a book, said “Take songs.”
HM: Ah, just to study? I mean . . .
HP: No, he give me a book to take a song from. He make a present (missing word). And he
compose . . .
HM: Ah, it was a present. So, he gave you a book of his songs.
HP: And he said “Take a s-,” Sparrow sing from that book. A lot of singers sing from that book.
HM: From Merchant’s book.
HP: From Merchant. I never take any. And you know, he told me something that he said. Said,
“Boy, (four missing syllables) take one of my songs.” But I am like, what I sing comes from
inside here.
�19
HM: You want to be the one who writes for you.
HP: I am, I will be more comfortable singing what I write.
HM: To express yourself.
HP: Yeah. Express mihself. I know what I write, you know? I think, I read a little, get mih facts.
HM: Your observations.
HP: Observe, you know. And Kitchener told me one thing, too, in mih young days. He said, “You
want to get ideas, go in a rum shop, and sit down and just listen to fellas talk. He said, “They
won’t tell you direct but just listen to what they say and you could (six missing syllables) . . .”
HM: That’s good advice.
HP: . . . and make a song.
HM: And some would say, that a true calypsonian only sings his or her own songs, you know.
You’re not truly a calypsonian unless you’re singing your own songs. I don’t know if that’s true.
HP: Now (seven missing syllables) Pretender and all said that. You have calypsonian and you
have calypso singer. A calypsonian is a fella who compose his own songs that he sing. A
calypso singer . . .
HM: Can sing other people’s work well.
HP: . . . is one who would sing a song . . . but now it common, according to some of the singers
that says you go by Kentucky and buy a song. (Five missing syllables) you could buy a song,
you know, but I . . .
30:02
HM: You always did your own songs?
HP: I wrote my own songs. I did, the only song I did two other people’s song. You heard of
Sundar Popo the chutney singer? UTT did a show for him after he died and Chalkdust called me
and they give me one of Sundar Popo’s songs to sing. I the onliest man to get the encore the
night, eh?
HM: You were the only one.
HP: They give me a song called “Spanner.” (Sings.) “Is the spanner she want.” (Laughs.)
(Speaks.) And then they did a show about three years ago for Sparrow in NAPA. I did a
Sparrow song.
HM: You did one of Sparrow’s song?
HP: They give me . . .
�20
HM: Because it was a tribute. Which one did you do?
HP: One about them, the jammettes and them, what do you call it? “To Keep the City Clean.”
HM: “To Keep the City Clean.”
HP: Yeah. That’s a song way back, eh? But Chalkdust is a true, you know, according to your,
eh? So, that’s the onliest two. But instead of sing somebody’s song I will write mih own, write
the songs I writin’.
HM: So. how would you describe calypso to someone who didn’t know the music? So, what
makes it calypso, what defines calypso for you? How do you know it’s calypso?
HP: I think as a Trinidadian, you know? Now we are expressing ourselves, you know? As a true
Trini, you know, you would say, “That’s a calypso you would sing.” Calypso, it almost like it have
a meaning for everything. Every day in life it have a calypso for it.
HM: Every subject. So, it has something to do with the lyrics. About what the, how the lyrics,
what the lyrics discuss. That it’s, so would you say it has more to do with the words than the
music? When your, someone is saying, “What is calypso?” It’s more about the words? Than the
music?
HP: The words are a lot, but the music has plenty to play in it, too. But, now for a long time they
used to do most of calypso in the minor. Like the extempo now.
HM: The sans humanite.
HP: Yeah. Sans humanite. You know, because most of the calypso used to be in that long time.
It’s a combination of the words and the music.
HM: And the music that make it distinct. But if you’re . . .
HP: Then Sparrow come here and Sparrow start to bring melodies from . . .
HM: Different places.
HP: Different . . .
HM: Different types of music.
HP: Different melodies, you know?
HM: So, there’s room for outside influence, to bring it into calypso, but it’s still calypso.
HP: It’s still calypso.
HM: And if you’re from Trinidad and you grow up with calypso, you just know what it is.
HP: Yeah.
�21
HM: Is that what you’re saying? This is calypso.
HP: This is calypso.
HM: I can, I just know it because, is that what you’re saying?
HP: Yeah. That is my t’ing. That is our thing.
HM: That is “my thing.”
HP: That is our t’ing, you know? Like you and the country and western. And you will have songs
you will do . . .
HM: We’ll say “That’s country.”
HP: . . . according to what going on in the country. Where you’re living.
HM: In the contemporary (missing word).
HP: You make a song and you will do songs about that, like what going on.
HM: That topic.
HP: So, that is how we do it.
HM: It’s simple.
HP: It’s a form of expressing yourself. How you think.
HM: It’s similar in that way. Country can discuss everyday topics.
HP: Yeah. I like country and western.
HM: I’m finding it’s popular.
HP: Gypsy. Gypsy is a very good country and western singer, eh?
HM: I talked to him. He grew up hearing his mother sing country and western.
HP: And we had a fella from Tobago called Cowboy Jack. I don’t hear about him again. He used
to sing, Tobago had a fella Cowboy Jack, they used to call him.
HM: Boy Jack?
HP: Cowboy Jack.
HM: Cowboy Jack.
HP: Cowboy. I think you could find out.
HM: Yeah, I’ll look.
�22
HP: They would tell you, but I believe he died. I don’t hear about him, but . . .
HM: He was very, he had a lot of country?
HP: Country, yeah, he sing like the Americans.
HM: Well, and Trini Rio. Does, he did, does a lot of country, very country.
HP: Who?
HP: Rio.
HP: Rio?
HM: Yeah.
HP: I didn’t know that.
HM: He does some country things too. But Gypsy, his song at Kaiso House this year, it could
have been in Nashville.
HP: Yeah, he into country and western, you know. He have the melodies.
HM: So, but we were discussing . . .
HP: Now, calypso we got (four missing syllables) melodies.
HM: . . . some of the same topics and song structure and things are very similar. I was
surprised.
HP: No, Gypsy, he like the country and western.
HM: Yeah, a lot. He’s seen Merle Haggard in concert several times. But, so, where do you find
your ideas for songs, where?
HP: I read a lot.
HM: A lot when you read?
HP: I listen to, you know, people talk.
HM: The news?
HP: The news.
HM: The paper.
HP: You know, and you get the ideas, you know?
�23
34:52
HM: So, hearing people discuss a topic.
HP: Discussing, you listen a lot, and according to what (two missing syllables) Pretender (two
missing syllables) listen, go into the rum shop, listen to them fellas. Somehow (six missing
syllables), you know. Just an idea.
HM: Just kind of sticks, the idea.
HP: And you come now and you have to think as the composer. You know, you just think what
you hear. You could change it. Shape it to suit you.
HM: To put it in different, to phrase it.
HP: How phrase it, you know. Get it to rhyme. Now calypso is a story, eh? What I hear some of
them fellas singing, you don’t hear the story. You’re wonderin’ what, but calypso is a story.
HM: But that’s another similarity with country. There are a lot of stories.
HP: You have to tell a story, you know? You just don’t sing, you know?
HM: On a topic.
HP: And then getting it together. Getting it to rhyme. Getting the right words. I like to rhyme
proper, eh? I like to rhyme. My rhyming must be . . .
HM: Proper?
HP: . . . not no hard, you know, not no far away, some of them rhyming “bat” with, if you
understand what I tell you, see.
HM: Yeah, so that the rhymes . . .
HP: My rhyming, so but you have to look for the words.
HM: . . . is tight. So, you have to find the right words.
HP: But somebody was telling me in England of a book with rhymes. I want, I tell mih daughter
to check out and get one of them books for me.
HM: A book of rhymes.
HP: GB have one of them.
HM: A book of rhymes. Rhyming words.
HP: Even if it wouldn’t tell you direct, but you know . . .
HM: It gives you some ideas.
�24
HP: . . . you could rhyme.
HM: A rhyming dictionary.
HP: Because that is important. I think.
HM: Can you think of any specific examples of a time when you read or heard something and it
became a song. You know, you can say, “Ah. That. I heard that here and that became this
particular song.” Can you tell me about that?
HP: You know the, Punch? I did a song about that.
HM: It’s a magazine?
HP: A newspaper.
Visitor: a newspaper. Yeah.
HM: Punch?
HP: Punch. But they have sexy, a sort of sexy, men have, half-naked. I made a song over that.
HM: And you saw something, and what song did that become?
HP: “Sexy Newspapers,” was the name of mih song.
(Edit.)
HM: In your writing are you drawn to any particular themes, in your writing, that you can say,
“Well, I sing about this and this and this?” Or when looking back at all your material, over your
material, are there certain themes that you go back to.
HP: I like social commentary. Double entendre. Humor.
HM: And what’s the last? Humor, yeah, yeah.
HP: Right? I did a song about “Change Your Name.” That when I made the final and went and
forget the song on the stage. (Laughs.)
HM: Ah, that was the humorous final.
HP: That was the humorous. “Change Your Name.”
HM: And what was it about?
HP: According to your character, you should carry that name.
HM: Ah, so your name should fit your character.
HP: Fit your character. You understand?
�25
HM: I like that.
HP: But I never did anything like the soca, like the uptempo beat? Like, I never adjusted. And
like I can’t do it. Right now, I have an idea for an uptempo, but I’ll make it and I’ll sell it as a soca
single.
HM: Kitchener said he would never do soca and then he ended up doing it, you know, so.
HP: Yeah.
HM: Well, are you influenced by your community in terms of what you write about, what the
feeling or emotion in your community, family, friends? Do they influence what you write?
HP: At certain time.
HM: In what way?
HP: Certain thing you see, you know, and your . . .
HM: Like what’s going on.
HP: . . . and make a song about that.
HP: Right now I want to make a song about the cell phone.
HM: Yeah, About cell phones?
HP: Yes, this thing is I . . .
HP: Everybody looking at their phones?
HP: Oh, lord, boy! This thing I see I start to make a song about this thing, you know, this phone.
Every time you talking to them they are on their phone. Everybody on a phone. You understand
what I say? So I studied how I could . . .
HM: Make that into a song?
HP: How I could make that into a song.
HM: So, you are still writing.
HP: Yes.
HM: Still thinking about writing songs.
HP: Yeah. Now hear me. As a composer, every minute of the day. I think about a song.
HM: Still. Your mind still works that way.
HP: My mind work on a song.
�26
HM: Well, when you write, do you write with an instrument? Do you write holding an instrument?
HP: No, I have the guitar there. I will start, I will get the idea. I will start to write. Then I take the
guitar, look for a melody.
HM: So, you get the words . . .
HP: I go in stages.
HM: You get the words first?
HP: Yes, I start with . . .
HM: You get the words first.
HP: A certain amount.
HM: And maybe a little bit of a melody?
HP: Then I look for a melody and then I . . .
HM: And then you pick up the guitar.
HP: . . . I go forward, yeah.
HM: Do you get the melody . . .
HP: Now . . .
HM: Do you get the melody, a little bit of melody before you pick up the guitar?
HP: No.
HM: So you just have the idea for the words.
HP: I get the idea for the song.
HM: Idea for the song.
HP: I start to write, and what I usually do, as long as I write a verse, a verse and a chorus, I’ll
get to a melody. Get it together, make sure the lines . . .
HM: That works, a verse and a chorus.
HP: Works. And as a guitarist you will know what I mean, to suit the melody. Now, you never
write a song straight, you know. Sometimes in mih book your words three, four page. I’m going
down but, until I could get, get it together. Getting words together you know?
40:33
�27
HM: When you get the verse and the chorus. Do you get the words for the verse and the chorus
and then the melody?
HP: Yes.
HM: Okay.
HP: No, not usually the chorus. The verse.
HM: The verse. You get the words first.
HP: Yes.
HM: Then you find the melody.
HP: Then I find the melody.
HM: Then you look for the chorus
HP: And then I look for the chorus.
HM: Ah, interesting. Because the title, what we call “the hook,” the title, which is what you would
remember or sing along on, that’s usually the chorus. So, you don’t get that first.
HP: No.
HM: Yeah, you get the verse. Which sets up the chorus.
HP: Sets up the song.
HM: Yeah. Yeah. And then, so then you look for that phrase . . .
HP: Yeah. And then go to the chorus.
HM: . . . like “Change Your Name” whatever it is.
HP: Yeah. And then go to the chorus. (Strums guitar.) I’m going to do a song for you called
“False Prophet” (six missing syllables).
HP: (Sings and plays guitar.) Doo-be-die, doo-be-die-die-die-die (Speaks.) I love to sing in
minor, too, eh?
HM: Yeah. Minor. Yeah.
HP: I makes mih song, I love minor. I think calypso is minor. But, it doh have to be a whole
minor song.
HM: You can change to major.
�28
HP: You know you put your other song, you know, in major, and thing.
HM: You can go major in the chorus or something.
HP: (Sings and plays guitar.) Somebody call on the master please/I sure he seeing the human
race on their knees/Everyday the world face a next disaster/So if he can come, well, send back
the Savior/Good Lord, so much men using religion/To oppress other fellow humans/Father it’s a
shame, they’re using your name for their dirty game/A title like reverend and pastor, but for land
will kill their brother/Things like this must leave us to wonder/If they’re serving God or the
almighty dollar/My friends you don’t need glasses to see/It have more religions here than
coconut trees/Saying them could save you but their plan is to leave you broken/Yes, to be
saved you must live different, so they make their own commandment/Dress nice and making big
speech/But half of them ain’t practicing what they preach/They does tell you how lust and
fornication/Is one of the biggest downfall of man/For a sin like this you could die/Instead they
watching your wife leg coki-eye, Lord.
HP: (Speaks.) That “False Prophet,” right?
HM: That’s good. That’s good.
HP: Now I sing it a little low, eh?
HP: (Sings and plays guitar.) This country have so much false prophet/They’re using religion to
run their racket.
HP: (Speaks.) I can’t remember all them thing. I’m getting old, you know (Laughs.)
HM: Calypso has so many words. Is there a particular time of day that you like to write? Or does
it matter? It doesn’t matter.
HP: Time I write that song, two o’clock in the morning. I get up. I get, I know, like I get up with
that idea.
HM: You wake up.
HP: I wake up and write that song.
45:00
HM: So. It’s just whenever the song hits you.
HP: When that feeling? It’s not something you could say, “I’m going and do that.”
HM: You have to wait until you feel . . .
HP: You have a feeling.
HM: It’s pulling you.
�29
HP: According to the saying, the vibration. You get the vibe.
HM: For me it’s almost like a magnetic attraction. It’s pulling me . . .
HP: Sometime I may sit down be working and something come to you, say, “I think I can make a
song with that.” Because, a time I was painting a house, that is the work I do, and boy I get a
idea. I come off the scaffold, and I tell the fella, (seven missing syllables) I said, “Let me have
paper and a pen.” He said, “Whey?” I said, “Just a minute, I tell you why. I have a thing.” What
come in mih head I jot it down. And when I come home and this is the song, eh?
HP: (Sings and plays guitar.) My grandson Tristan came to me with a serious question/Grandpa
what’s the qualification to be a successful politician?/I said my son, I want you to
understand/This is my personal opinion/But if you are to enter politics/Like monkey, you should
know one hundred and one tricks/Son, you have to lie/And be an expert in mamaguy/Know to
make a good speech/But you scarcely practicing what you preach/Under oath you swear you
have a clean hand/But underground you’re dealing in corruption/My son when you meet these
criteria/You could become a junior prime minister.
(Speaks.) That was grandson there, Tristan. But I put it to “he,” you know? The idea come to me
you know, to say he’s questioning me. You understand where I come from? You know I didn’t
want to say I saying so.
(Singing and playing guitar.) During the conversation/I had to remind him of his education/I said
doctor, lawyer, and trade unionist/Who like to go into this business/You must have some yes
man as your follower/Who would worship you like the Messiah/But my son in your quest for
fortune and fame/Always remember politics is a nasty game/You must kiss babies. (Laughs.)
(Speaks.) You know, remember all them politicians who go around and hug up babies and
thing? That the last song I sing I did in a calypso tent.
HM: That’s the last song?
HP: That’s the last I did in the tent, yeah.
HM: Was that one. Do you, at what point do you write something down, actually write something
down, or, and do you record anything before it’s finished like on a cassette recorder or anything
like that?
HP: No, I write.
HM: Do you just write it down?
HP: I write.
HM: How do you remember the melody?
HP: Well . . .
HM: Just on your guitar. Because you’ve got it up here.
HP: With mih guitar. I get mih chord. You know, I get the . . .
�30
HM: So, you don’t write down the music. You just write down the . . .
HP: I can’t write music.
HM: And so, you don’t even record it. You just have it up here.
HP: After, when the song reach a standard, I’ll record something.
HM: And where do you do that?
HP: Right here, you know.
HM: You have a recorder?
HP: Yeah, you know home, we do it right there. You know, with the phone.
HM: There’s a studio?
HP: No, we have the phone and thing.
HM: Oh, you use the phone.
HP: My daughter record it.
HM: Oh, before you had the phone what did you use.
HP: I never recorded.
HM: You just had it in your head.
HP: Yeah. In the earlier days we never had those things.
HM: Well, I hope you put all these down, you know, the ones that you don’t have recorded. At
least on the phone. You could sing it into the phone.
(Edit.)
HM: Does your being a performer affect what you write? Versus someone who just writes for
other people to sing. Do you think your being a performer affects what you write, knowing your
going to perform the song onstage? Do you think about being on stage while you’re writing the
song?
HP: Yeah. I always see that audience in front of me.
HM: You see it in front of you.
HP: Yeah. While I writing I seeing the audience and how their reaction would be.
HM: So, it does affect how . . .
�31
HP: Yeah.
HM: Because you know you’re going to be the one singing that song onstage.
HP: Yeah, yeah.
HM: And is it a topic that people . . .
HP: Yeah.
HM: . . . would react to respond to.
HP: I try to keep away from a topic that they wouldn’t, like the political song I just did.
HM: You kind of stay away from political?
HP: Yeah, but this . . .
HM: That was political.
HP: That was political but it is, notice how I did it.
50:01
HM: But it wasn’t about a party, it wasn’t supporting one party.
HP: I think about politicians.
HM: About generally, all politicians.
HP: All politicians. And I try my best to keep from ever calling names.
HM. Yeah, by saying Rowley or Manning.
HP: Yeah. I eh calling any name.
HM: Or Williams.
HP: But what I would say, you know who is that person I singing about.
HM: You could say you, that people would know who you were talking about.
HP: I believe that is calypso.
HM: It’s more (five missing syllables).
HP: With the humor. With a little humor. And then you could say things that you don’t have to
call a name.
�32
HM: It’s almost double meaning also, because . . .
HP: Yes.
HM: . . . you’re saying this, but everybody’s, “Oh, he’s talking about . . . “
HP: Yes, you know, let them say who I talk about.
HM: Without saying it.
HP: You know?
HM: Without you being so obvious.
HP: Yeah, you know, without I don’t call the name, you know.
HM: Some people, some composers have told me they believe that because the news is so, it’s
everywhere, 24 hours a day, Facebook, internet, that that is changing the role of calypso,
because calypso is no longer the newspaper.
HP: Yeah.
HM: And that calypso has to change because it no longer . . .
HP: Can meet these times.
HM: . . . has the same function. Do you believe that’s true?
HP: Yeah. Because we was the people who used to inform people. Things they never used to
hear about, a calypsonian would hear and bring it out to you. But now according to what you
say, with all this information now, people eh, you know, they don’t hear that.
(Edit.)
HP: But the fella who sit out there in the audience . . .
HM: Who’s listening.
HP: . . you have to, you know, come to he, what he want, you know, what he would like to hear.
HM: Yeah, so you’re thinking about the audience, person in the audience.
HP: Always thinking. When you, as I tell you when I making a song I see the audience.
HM: So, you’re not just thinking about what you want to say.
HP: Not what I want to say. What I want to say is important but it’s not important. So, if they eh
appreciate what I saying, the song eh have make no sense. Okay?
HM: It’s no good just to be singing for yourself.
�33
HP: Singing for yourself. I have to sing what I think. That one of my biggest critic, eh? Mih
madam? What happen, when I finish a song and I sing it and she will tell me. You know what I
mean?
HM: Yeah, You need that.
HP: She’s one of my biggest critic and she said that eh good.
HM: Because she’ll tell what she thinks.
HP: What she thinks. That is important. And sometimes she still vex with me when I go on and
sing the song on the road for them fellas to hear, but it important.
HM: Sometimes you need . . .
HP: To get opinion from different people.
HM: You get it so, yeah, ‘cause not, one person’s not always gonna have the same point of
view.
HP: But get it from different people.
HM: But you have to have people that you trust.
HP: Well, yes. You know, there are people who talk stupid, you know. But still you listen to
them, too. You know? But remember that you are not making that for you alone. You know?
There’s some people who could, you know, think what and say, “Yeah. What he’s talkin’ is true.”
Now, “The False Prophet” song. You know why I made that song? Remember Jimmy
Swaggart? And Jim Jones?
HM: Yep. Oh, yeah.
HP: That’s how I made that song, eh? Set in those days.
HM: Speaking directly to a Christian audience.
HP: I get that idea and so I put it . . .
HM: You wrote that song . . .
HP: . . . in a song. “False Prophet.”
HM: For that. And Jim Jones being in Guyana . . .
HP: Guyana.
HM: . . . was right there.
HP: Right, you know?
HM: You know, it was very close.
�34
HP: And then Jimmy Swaggart.
(Edit.)
HM: So we talked a little bit about your being of Indian descent. And how that was used to
market you early on until people got to know you, that you were a real calypsonian and they
liked you as a performer and entertainer. Did your being of Indian descent, were you seen as
being different, or once that you were kind of in the club, once you were accepted, it didn’t
matter anymore. It didn’t really matter anymore?
HP: In my book it didn’t matter. Now, you know in the beginning there was, “Watch that little
Indian come.” You know? That is why Superior went and tell, when Superior heard me, he was
singing with Kitchener. That wasn’t far apart, and Superior came in Victory tent and he hear me.
And he went and tell the fellas in the tent, “Hey, (two missing syllables) there’s an Indian singing
by Blakie. He’s singing like a n----r.” That’s his exact words, eh?
HM: That was a compliment, right?.
HP: Exact-, he said that, “If you stay outside and listen to that fella you wouldn’t know it was an
Indian singing there.”
HM: And that impressed him, right?
HP: You understand? But after them years. After my first year, my second year, I had a-, they
appreciate me. They never showed me . . .
HM: Treated you differently.
HP: You know? Yeah. They treat me as a calypsonian. You understand? Because like, they got
to realize mih ability and how I do it. And then years go by people stop thinkin’ about Indian.
HM: It didn’t matter, you were just one of them.
HP: They had calypsonians to tell ‘em, people that, “He’s a little n------r.” (Laughter.) You know,
not saying, you know, not being racial.
HM: Yeah, they were just saying he’s one of us.
HP: Yeah.
HM: Basically.
HP: But they appreciate me. Let me tell you something. They had Indian calypsonians before
me, eh? They had Indian Prince.
HM: Indian Prince, I’ve heard that name.
HP: They had Mighty Indian.
HM: I’ll just write these names down.
�35
HP: Yeah. Take down their names.
(Family member off mic.): You will get that in the George Maharaj book.
HM: It’s in that book, too.
HP: I eh know if you could get two copy of that.
HM: Yeah, I might be able to. Indian Prince.
Family member: They might have it in Chaguanas.
HP: Indian Prince. Mighty Indian.
HM: Mighty Indian. And these guys are gone, right?
HP: Yeah, I believe. But they had this boy, Rajah.
HM: Rajah.
HP: You could remember some, Skyler, boy?
Visitor: Mm-mm
HP: Rajah could sing good. They had one they called Shah.
HM: I heard his name. S-H-A . . .
HP: H. S-H-A-H.
HM: H. Oh, like Shah of Iran.
HP: They got other fella, but I the fella last the longest.
(Edit.)
End of interview
�
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
J. Hunter Moore
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Hindu Prince (Kenneth Nathaniel)
Location
The location of the interview
Subject's home in Flanagin Town, Trinidad and Tobago
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
54:20
Time Summary
A summary of an interview given for different time stamps throughout the interview
Subject sings: 16:15, 18:00, 19:20, 21:17, 23:14, 41:33, 42:04, 45:58
-----------------------------------------
Notes about interview: the original recording has been edited for length
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Hindu Prince Interview
Description
An account of the resource
Actual name: Kenneth Nathaniel
Other sobriquets/nicknames: Prince, Chicken Hawk (early)
Date of birth: December 22, 1950
Place of birth:
Awards (as of March 2018): Calypso Monarch National Semi-finals (twice), Humorous Calypso Finals
Best songs/best-known songs: “False Prophet,” “Heartless,” “De Gambler,” Animal Doctor,” “Ram Goat Mentality”
--------------------------------------
Individuals heard during interview:
HP: Hindu Prince
HM: Hunter Moore
---------------------------------------
Trinidad and Tobago terms and expressions as used in the interview:
Bulla: a gay man
Coki-eye: cockeyed, watching out of the corner of one’s eye
Doh: don’t
Dougla: an individual of African and Indian descent
Eh: ain’t, can also add emphasis at the end of a phrase
Kentucky: Kentucky Fried Chicken, popular American fast food chain in Trinidad. Prince’s reference to buying a song at Kentucky is a metaphor for singers who buy songs that are quickly produced and lack personality.
Lickrish: greedy
Mamaguy: a person who uses intimidating behavior to accomplish his or her objectives
Mih: my
Mihself: myself
Pukney: homemade gun (per Hindu Prince)
Sampat: an agreement (per Hindu Prince)
Sans humanite’: a traditional calypso melodic refrain, often used for extempo lyrics
UTT: University of Trinidad and Tobago
Whey: what, where
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2018-02-25
-
https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/40461/archive/files/e51f555cddf19ba8d1dc7fbb4d478fd8.jpg?Expires=1712793600&Signature=VOwdjwSoog94KYlhNaTfawyuetE45tQx1DH9yvSkqP82iEEZp4Kq5OzSBJaV75ggpdKDC-BPhHxPug24dW22AOEAwKQNUgizeyN45HlHnrH27Xfgr3FFn6602GV21Z-npfFkg%7EPZfQro8K5MDRtqYXceakHeKV8Nq0XkwQM9ApmDF8TknskH4mInDNugWx0jTptQIn574dIteI5s%7E%7EmY6WZA-wa0uikDc3XdgreRN-AgfzTMoFVbdon0hM1feNXggyTaUYdlVGqrTPzID2qm80jwgiMR-wePbZ0NM2XVBYz1NtbTYe-SG650L82qF%7EHPZwVcwHTkFTJWMlTZ6MTVGg__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM
be5ce7d0f8e75c88e035b5dc596724c7
https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/40461/archive/files/b3ae91cfe20f1178c25e263c6e7ae2f8.mp3?Expires=1712793600&Signature=RBUfLx4SWIT%7ExgXu%7EyY-svgk2w0UZ2KJsiefVFGimWbxRE253sJlQm9yH6OVM5w9PVwXiVBXpyKuxVypALyZlCc6UVquohiqqfFjoPnV8tg7AtPpQsvzBI-R9BeRZN69JH%7Ez3%7EABeQrVGB-d-Wjgl%7EKNz5-RMXa9bCPSBIKCJvMewr4PdDSvStZpqAfHjlIETc-wNPq1Xv6nhG7f%7EYvB%7EhRM0w6-wy4SqwNlzaM790Qjzf6s8Ppk0LJvnqaUwo7y-ibfVRUmmeYXSu573up4Co0mgG%7EkufoPWz0sh8WBovInC%7ETVigkSUbAA6eOEyvDthx2FGsz6ebAmFpuWyTGtEg__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM
1c752f86ac0019b5f59ceb99c6473689
https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/40461/archive/files/57e2868b660a74214e04947f325fb06b.pdf?Expires=1712793600&Signature=Su3PKqMQ7083Hz0uv2uDBY-eBuzHFXh0ILi%7E%7ELPn9mTzIjKlwMlVI9fARNH7cCyWYuxyozu0XykgyytdGvLwgorlC8-VqyWqV0hRdWsCxWtc9eIAoZr%7ETjagx8QqGAm469%7EBjQRttdVXqGbSxFXP2U2D8PfYmAZvG6hMqvz8y6dyJxh53W7dYQXowRuKcoKSIk9qFQtRsav8QQybSyrg%7Erfhqnho4ciZqlLsY-Kx-alL2aY250ZC6GVWG%7EJda7zxwWNzkgJG6AutAdrfhX1aKifM5EbaPA0wPfRBBMqYGp82gVfW0wOE7yLZVi9FqoyobNRl4Aj5kRGEYbdgUgKu8Q__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM
aa501acbd44d8ca34b2c62abf2c6d9fa
PDF Text
Text
Interview subject: Lord Superior
Interviewer: J. Hunter Moore
Date: October 10, 2017
Location of interview: subject’s home in Diego Martin, Trinidad and Tobago
Actual Name: Andrew Marcano
Other sobriquets/nicknames: Brother Superior, Superior, Supie, Uncle Supie
Date of birth: November 30, 1937
Place of birth: Rio Claro, Trinidad and Tobago
Lived abroad: lived in U.S. 1964-1970, naturalized U.S. citizen
Awards (as of March 2018): Southern Calypso Monarch, Hummingbird Medal (Silver), 2015,
Honorary Doctor of Letters (University of West Indies, St. Augustine), 2018
Best songs/best-known songs: “Brass Crown,” “Black Coffee,” “All African,” “San Fernando
Carnival,”
-----------------------------------------Individuals heard during the interview:
LS: Lord Superior
HM: Hunter Moore
-----------------------------------------Trinidad and Tobago terms and expressions used in the transcript:
Ah: I
Meh: my
-----------------------------------------Subject sings and/or plays guitar: 5:15, 7:12, 9:36, 12:03, 13:02, 15:28, 37:22, 38:15, 39:58
------------------------------------------Notes about interview: A breeze blowing through the open windows caused a periodic rumbling
sound, particularly around 13:30 of the interview. As the interview begins, Superior is softly
playing a guitar. He continues on and off throughout the interview.
-------------------------------------------
�2
Interview:
HM: Okay. We are here at the home of Lord Superior, Andrew Marcano, to talk about calypso.
And when did you begin writing calypsos?
LS: I started about 19-, like around 1950. Thereabouts. 1950. I started professionally in 1954
performing in the calypso tent (three or four missing syllables) at that time.
HM: That’s when you would have begun performing your own songs at that point, in 1954?
LS: Yes. Yeah. But from very early I started composing. I sang other people’s songs, but I
started composing very, very, early because the tradition was, and this is what appealed to me,
and was a very challenging something, that calypsonians were supposed to compose their own
songs, lyrics and music, perform them, sing them . . .
(Microphone is moved closer to subject to increase volume.)
LS: Sing them and accompany yourself.
HM: You’re supposed to do the whole thing.
LS: Yes, and also do the extempo, improvisation.
HM: That was part of it.
LS: That was the calypsonian.
HM: Were you supposed to always, was it always supposed to be made up on the spot or . . .
LS: No, no.
HM: But you were supposed to be able to do some of that.
LS: Do that. Yes, yes. That’s what it was. And I thought that was a great challenge, you know.
So, I tried to learn that, those different things. When I came to Port of Spain, some of the guys,
some didn’t go through the whole process. Some composed lyrics, some very good with the
lyrics, although not very good with the music part. Some had the music part, and the lyrics not
as good. Some could extempo, some cannot. And I discovered that, I observed that, and I
thought I would try, I would give it a shot to be the real thing.
HM: To do the whole . . .
LS: And be the whole thing.
HM: . . . the whole thing. Did you ever compose any other kind of music? Or always just
calypso.
LS: No. I was interested in calypso. I sang other little songs, Sinatra, and like Sinatra and Nat
Cole, and that kind of thing, but the calypso was real. The other songs were basically fantasy. “I
will love you, I’ll give you the moon, I’ll give you the stars,” and all that kind of thing, but the
�3
calypso was about life and used to hit me right, you know? I heard songs like, “If a man have
money today/People don’t care if he’s got cocobay.” That was a disease that was like leprosy or
something like that. “If a man have money today/People don’t care if he have cocobay/He could
come with murder and get off free/And live in the governor’s company/But if you are poor and
the people tell you, ‘Shoo!’/A dog is better than you.” That to me, that makes sense. When I
heard, “Man Smart, Woman Smarter,” and that kind of subject . . .
HM: So, these were songs that you were hearing.
LS: Yes. Yes. Yes.
HM: These were songs you were hearing at the time . . .
LS: Yes. Yes. Yes.
HM: . . . that inspired you.
LS: Yes. Yes. Yes.
HM: . . . as a young boy. So, you kind of said it. That attracted you to want to do the same.
LS: That is . . .yes, yes.
HM: So, you began composing verse and doing that.
LS: Right.
HM: How, you’ve only done calypso, you’ve only written calypso, how would you define calypso.
How would you, what would you tell someone? That this is calypso and this isn’t.
LS: Okay, well, the definin’ thing is the music.
HM: Is the music?
LS: Yes, yes, yes. The music. The way it is, it’s phrased, the structure. The phrasing.
5:03
HM: The melody? Or the, is it the . . .
LS: Not the melody, the way, as I said, the phrasing, the way it’s phrased.
LS: (Sings.) Ba-dum-ba-dum-ba-dum-ba-dum (etc.).
HM: Could you play a little and sing that, too? So you could give us a little bit of the feel?
Something, an example?
LS: (Sings typical calypso melodic phrases while playing guitar.) Ba-dum-ba-dum-ba-dum-dadum-da-dum (etc.)
�4
HM: So, yes, it’s the phrasing . . .
LS: (Speaks.) The phrase.
HM: I mean, the phrasing, it reflects the feel and the chords . . .
LS: Yes.
HM: . . . but there’re certain, the lines are a certain length, you know.
LS: You got it. And it’s, calypso is based on an old African tradition called the griots. They
would, people who appointed them, they also appointed themselves, to know everything about
the community. So, it was an aural kind of tradition, that they have in their mind, you can check
them, to know about everybody business and family, and that type of thing. Some sang it (two
or three missing words), you understand, some were like comedians and all that kind of thing.
And, of course, it’s African rhythms, polyrhythms, all kinds of rhythms, you know, calypso
rhythms. Let me see. I’ll take it from a song. (Plays guitar chords in calypso rhythm.)
HM: (Guitar continues.) That’s a different one, right?
LS: (Guitar continues.) Yes.
HM: (Guitar continues.) So, that would be an influence?
LS: Yes, yes. And you have a, I learned this. (Plays a walking bass line on guitar.) I learned this
from a guy called Lord Melody. Lord Melody is a guy who composed some songs for Belafonte
like “Mama Look a Boo Boo,” and what have you. And this how he used to compose songs.
HM: Like with a bass line?
LS: Yes. He couldn’t play it very, very well. But . . .
HM: Just did that part.
LS: That part. And another calypsonian taught me how to play that in chords. And that was like I
was in seventh heaven. It went like this. (Plays walking bass line, adding chords on top.)
HM: It’s like you’re playing the bass and the chords.
LS: Yeah. Yes, yes. So, I used to pick up from all the different calypsonians, from their . . .
HM: That were around.
LS: . . . their skills, you know. Making one that, I would say, trying to make one Lord Superior
who can do the lyrics . . .
HM: The music.
LS: . . . the music, to accompany myself, do the improvisation, and later on I taught myself with
a little help from some of the singers also to do the notation and all that kind of stuff. So I . . .
�5
HM: Well, I was going to ask if you’ve been influenced by other kinds of music, you were
influenced by other . . .
LS: Oh, yes. Yes.
HM: . . . calypso composers, but other kind of music beside calypso.
LS: I listen, yes, I listen, I listen, because that’s how I, as a matter of fact I have introduce some
different chordal patterns.
HM: That are unu-, that are different.
LS: Yes.
HM: That weren’t common to calypso.
9:30
LS: Right. The calypso, this was the most popular: (Sings and plays chords similar to first
pattern he played.) Ba-dum-ba-dum-da-dum (etc.) (Speaks.) And a lot of guys will sing that
melody with a little variation sometime: (Sings and plays chords.) Ba-dum-ba-dum-da-da-dum,
(etc.) (Speaks.) But after a while, I decide because I listen, wherever I go, I listen, to see how it,
how the chords is structured. Then I started shift away. (Sings and plays guitar using different
chord pattern.) Ba-dah-da-dah-ba-da-da, (etc.).
LS: (Speaks.) So, I introduced some of those things.
HM: Some of those chords. And where were you getting those progression ideas from? Were
you just making them up, or did you hear them somewhere else?
LS: No, I sometime I hear them . . .
HM: In other songs?
LS: In other, in other types of music, you know. And I hear something that appeal to me, I will
integrate it into . . .
HM: From, take it . . .
LS: Yes, yes.
HM: . . . take it from outside and bring it in.
LS: Four beats, four bars, or eight bars, and that kind of thing. So, I have a reputation of . . .
HM: Introducing kind of different chord patterns.
LS: Yeah, chord patterns.
�6
HM: Where do you find your ideas?
LS: Oh, well I studied one of the greatest calypso composers, the late, great Mighty Spoiler. He
sort of adopted me in 1953, ’54, and he took me under his wings, and we lived in the same little
house in Laventille. He had the best imagination. He’s famous for that. So, I used to sing a lot of
his songs. And I used to listen and see how he composed songs. And so for instance, here’s a
song of his (three or four missing syllables).
LS: (Sings and plays a portion of Spoiler’s “Bedbug.”) “Yes, I’ve heard when you die after
burial/You’ve got to come back as a insect or animal/I heard when you die after burial/You’ve
got to come back as an insect or animal/If that is so, I don’t want to be a monkey/Neither a goat,
a sheep, or donkey/My brother said he want to come back a hog/Not me, I want to be a
bedbug/Just because I want to bite those young ladies bad/Like a hot dog or a hamburger/If you
know you’re thin, don’t be in a fright/It’s only big fat women that I’m going to bite.”
LS: (Speaks.) And that you know, that’s an idea he just pull out of the air. You know, and he
was very, very good with that.
HM: So, you could watch him and kinda see how he did it.
LS: Yes. And the way he got his, some of his subjects from, from his imagination.
HM: Just in his imagination.
LS: Yes, yes, yes. Like, (Sings and plays.) “A scientist fellow, he made me to know/What will
happen in the world of tomorrow/A scientist fellow, he made me to know/What will happen in the
world of tomorrow/You wake up anytime in the afternoon/Invite your girlfriend to go to the
moon/You will say Spoiler darling your making fun/We went to moon last week let’s go to the
sun/The scientist say so happy bliss/People will make children by wireless/Wake up in the . . .
LS: (Laughs.) (Speaks.) That’s the kind of . . .
HM: Sense of humor.
LS: Yes. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He was one of the most popular people. Played with the
imagination, so I picked up little things . . .
HM: Watching him and how he found ideas and then turned them . . .
LS: Yes.
HM: . . . into a song. Did you get to hear songs as they were in the process of being composed
when you, would he play you part of a song, and then you would . . .
LS: No, no. Not, he compose his songs in his head.
HM: They would be finished by the time you heard them.
LS: Yeah, yeah, yeah. That’s how we composed long ago. We had no tape recorders.
�7
HM: To write them.
LS: All we had, we have to write, edit, change . . .
HM: To remember, change it all in your head.
LS: . . . and every-, yeah, yeah, so that was a very good experience.
HM: So, are most of your ideas for songs just sort of come to you or do you get ideas from
outside, like the news . . .
LS: Both ways. Sometimes the songs like they compose themself. You just have to do a little
editing and adjusting.
HM: You don’t change much.
LS: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Sometimes, sometimes the melody comes first. Sometimes, you know.
HM: The melody comes first.
LS: Yes, sometimes the melody comes first.
HM: Without any words.
LS: No.
HM: Just melody?
LS: Just the melody.
HM: And then you’ll add the words.
14:57
LS: You’ll decide to, excuse me, the subject matter to make the marriage. It must sort of, they
must resemble each other. It must fit, you know. But this you pick up as the years go by. You
choose the right songs, the right subjects and the type of mood. If it’s minor something.
LS: (Strums minor chord on guitar.) (Sings a minor melody and plays guitar.) Dai-dai-dai- (etc.)
LS: (Speaks.) You see. So, it’s . . . (Plays minor notes on guitar.)
HM: I also was thinking, is there a particular example that you can think of, of how you, how a
particular song that stands out, that was sort of a story? That you could tell about a particular
idea or song, how it came to be? That was, I don’t know, unusual. Or one that just stands out in
your memory?
LS: Alright. Some years, somewhere, it must have been in the, I think maybe in the Seventies or
the early Eighties there was a group of East Indian performers coming to Trinidad. And there
�8
was a female comedian by the name of Tun-Tun. Now tun-tun in Trinidad and Tobago is the
word for the female organ. And you know we play on words a lot, you know, and that song, just,
I get to make that a song as I said it almost presented itself. But I did not sing the song because
it was not my style, right? It was too close to the, it was borderin’ on vulgarity, you know. And I
gave it to another guy who . . .
HM: That’s more of his style.
LS: More his style, exactly. And he made a hit. That, it was one, well it was the second most
popular song for that Carnival. They had to bring back the female comedian to perform as a
result of the song.
HM: Of that, because she was more famous now . . .
LS: Yes, yes.
HM: . . . because of the song.
LS: Yes, yeah, yeah.
HM: But she didn’t mind. (Laughs.)
LS: No, no. Not at all. So, calypso, you’ll hear calypso in conversation every day and you say,
you know, as a matter of fact, not too long ago, I’d say it might have been in May this year, May
of this year, I went to fix my flat tire and the guy was fixin’ the tire and he saw, he realized Ah
calypsonian and he started talking about (Clock begins to chime to tune of “Beautiful Dreamer.”)
the frustration of the steel band people and this that and the other and he was very emotional
about it, because it was a serious, and I picked it up. He said that, “Steel band evolved to play
music for Carnival days. That’s how the steel band came about.
HM: That was the reason.
LS: Yes. Alright. And now you try to go to Carnival, you can’t hear calypso, you can’t hear steel
band on the streets anymore.
HM: Because the speakers are so loud.
LS: Exactly! But you don’t have the bands on the street anymore. They pushed out. And I said
to myself, “I’m gonna make a song of it.” As a matter fact, I’m just in the process of finishing it,
and it says something like this. I said, “I’ve talked to a bunch of pan men who voicing all their
frustration/Why no pan on the road for Carnival?/They say “Thank God for Panorama!” You
know what Panorama is? Panorama.
HM: Oh yeah. The competition.
20:08
�9
LS: Panorama. “That show is like our Lord and Savior/Without it, our pan is in a funeral/They
remember the old rhythm section.” That before we had the musical notes on the pan. The
rhythm section was just knockin’ . . .
HM: Different pieces of metal.
LS: Percussion. Yes, yeah, yeah. Ding-a-ding-a-ding-ding-a-ding-a (etc.). But the old rhythm
section, “Alexander Ragtime Band,” that was a . . .
HM: I remember that song.
LS: Yeah, and the rhythm section (Sings.) “The rhythm section.” (Speaks.) The tambu bambu
days, the tambu bambu days.
HM: When they took the tambu, the bamboo sections and hit them on the ground.
LS: That’s right. You’re well-informed. “Had people amazed, but they never anticipated/This
modern stupid phase/Carnival day, hear the town say,” that mean the people in town say,
“‘Where de steel band gone/Is only big trucks out there with their DJ’s and carryin’ on’/I’m sayin’
bring back pan on the road, bring back pan on the road/From Joovay,” Joovay’s on Monday
mornin’, the break of the Carn-, “From Joovay to Wednesday,” that’s Ash Wednesday when you
cut out pan, “The pan must be heard.” I say, “The pan men say, ‘Change your code’/Now I’m
sayin’ now Dr. Supie is spreadin’ the word/Bring back pan, bring back pan, bring back pan on
the road.” And I am making a re-entry . . .
HM: Oh, good.
LS: . . . into the pan music. With a lot of chords and things.
HM: So, it’s something that one of the bands might play.
LS: Yes, yeah, yeah. That kind of thing.
HM: (Three missing syllables.)
LS: So, I pick it up just from a guy who fixing his tire. A pan man who was . . .
HM: Just talking to him.
LS: Yeah.
HM: So that was the source . . .
LS: Yes, that was it.
HM: . . . of your inspiration. Thinking about that.
LS: Yep.
HM: Are there any particular themes that you find yourself drawn to more often? Or, you know,
things you tend to write about, more about?
�10
LS: It would seem social commentary and it’s, a lot of them about the problems in the culture,
because we work under tremendous humiliation and all kind of stuff here. Calypso was created
with a . . . I saw signs in Port of Spain, “There’s no dogs and calypsonians.”
HM: Wow. This was when you were starting out?
LS: Yes. Yeah, yeah, yes. I used to go in and you’d have it written on the wall in restaurants and
I would get a little paintbrush and something and paint it over.
HM: Paint it over and run out (Laughs.)
LS: And run out. Yeah. Until they started to frame them.
HM: Ah, so you couldn’t do that anymore.
LS: But I’d pull down the whole thing with the, and go downstairs and smash it up. And finally,
they won the battle eventually. I brought down in, that was up to 1966. I brought my manager
down here, a Jewish fella, came down and we went into one of these Chinese restaurants and it
was on the menu.
HM: Ah, it was printed on the menu.
LS: On the menu. It was the most humiliating thing.
HM: No calypsonians.
LS: And dogs, yeah.
HM: And dogs.
LS: So, but the music was stronger than the insults and that kind of thing.
HM: It survived.
LS: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
HM: It survived that. Have you, do you play any other instruments beside guitar?
LS: No. I play a little pan, you know. I was forced to do that. But I like the guitar for the portability
for one. I can go anywhere. I can go . . .
HM: Just pick it up and go.
LS: Any part of the world. And I can . . .
HM: Take it on the airplane.
LS: Airplane. I can go in the restaurant even if go in a strange town. I’m not gonna starve.
HM: That’s right.
�11
25:00
LS: I can walk in a restaurant and give you a quick demonstration of something. Get a job. I
arrange a meal, a drink. What is your dead night? Yeah, and we can . . .
HM: We can pick things up for you.
LS: . . . have a Caribbean night. Cook some Caribbean food, and I bring the music, and so on. I
did very well.
HM: Well, and the rhythm, too, I think it, with me the guitar gives you a chance to give it more
rhythm.
LS: Yes, yes.
HM: You can hit the strings. You can mute the strings. You can strum . . .
LS: Yeah.
HM: . . . the strings. Do you like to write at a particular time of day? Does it happen when you’re
writing any time of day? Is there a time that you like to write . . .
LS: The best time is early morning, after twelve, one o’clock in the stillness of the night. That’s
when it invites more thoughts.
HM: So, after midnight.
LS: Yes. That’s the best time.
HM: Quiet time.
LS: I can do it anytime, but that’s the perfect time.
HM: The best time. How do you, when you’re writing do you write with a guitar in your hands or
do you, or are you composing in your head just walking around?
LS: Yes, yes, yes, but I’ll end up with guitar doing it because the guitar helps to formulate the
melody, when you strum some chords and thing, you hear things. And you can vary as much as
possible because sometimes you don’t want to copy a melody. You have to vary it as much as
possible because sometimes as I told you, you have only this (Strums chord pattern on guitar.)
But you can . . .
HM: You can add to it.
LS: Add, and go anywhere, start anywhere.
HM: Will you have an idea and then pick up your guitar or just sit down with the guitar, start
playing and get an idea? What is it, how does it work for you?
�12
LS: Whichever comes first.
HM: Either one. It doesn’t . . .
LS: Sometime you might be walking in the street, and something comes to you, and you start to
compose it in your head (a few missing words).
HM: Before you ever pick up the guitar?
LS: Before you pick up the guitar. And then you pick up the guitar and see where you’re going to
vary the melody, the chords and thing.
HM: Find it.
LS: Yeah. Mm-hm.
HM: So do you write anything down before you finish the song or do you finish the song and
then write it down?
LS: Before.
HM: Are you writing ideas down, crossing things out, you know, kind of playing with it on paper,
or . . .
LS: Both ways. I do that sometimes. ‘Cause as I told you before we did everything in our head
and . . .
HM: You had to do everything in your head when you were starting out.
LS: Yeah, yeah. But now whatever is easy to do. Make it easy on yourself.
HM: (Laughs.)
LS: But that’s one of the reasons why I learned to put, to jot down a melody.
HM: To learn how to write the notes down so you could . . .
LS: Yes. Yes.
HM: . . . record, you could put the melody down and go back to it.
LS: Yes. And put the chord . . .
HM: Before you had tape recorder or whatever. You needed to write it down.
LS: Yeah. But if you’re in an awkward place and you don’t have that, you could jot down a line.
(Sings a melody.) Bah-da-bah-da-bah-da-bah-bah-bah (etc.). (Speaks.) You could write that
down because sometimes they go back from where they come from.
HM: If you don’t do that then it’s just gone.
�13
LS: It’s gone.
HM: And you’re searching for it.
LS: And you don’t, (Claps hands.) you can’t find it, you know?
HM: (Laughs.)
LS: So that was a very . . . (Laughs.)
HM: That was helpful to know that.
LS: Yeah, yeah.
HM: Does being a performer and a composer, rather than just a composer, does your
performing affect what you write? So, do you think that there’s, you know, being able to perform
your songs also affects your writing in a way that wouldn’t if you were just purely a writer.
LS: No, I don’t think so.
HM: You don’t think it matters?
LS: It doesn’t matter. I can visualize the performance. I do everything. I’m not a very
demonstrative kind of performer. I don’t like too much gimmickry.
HM: Move around all over the stage.
LS: The power is in the lyrics and how you express it.
HM: You let the song do it.
LS: Yes, yes, yes, yes. I don’t like people who run all over the place . . .
HM: (Laughs.)
29:57
LS: . . . like they don’t know what they’re doing, you know. But that work very well for some
performers. That’s certainly a big thing for them. But I don’t like it particularly. I . . .
HM: It’s not your style.
LS: Not my style. Not my style.
HM: Do you think the internet and the, all the social media, facebook, and all the
communication, people texting, has that change calypso, the reason for calypso or do you think
it will affect calypso, when people communicate so freely now using social media?
�14
LS: Yes, it affect calypso a bit. (Missing word) calypso was like the newspaper before so it will
take away.
HM: Where people got the news.
LS: A subject would last a whole year.
HM: People could just talk about it.
LS: Yes. The whole year you could, something happen in March, May, you can sing that next
Carnival. But that doesn’t . . .
HM: Now the people would have forgotten it.
LS: Yes, yes. In ten days. So that affect that a bit and is one of the reasons why the soca music,
it doesn’t have that power for me. The rhythm is more the driving force.
HM: That’s the attraction.
LS: People want to dance more than anything else. So, the calypso is in a more theater kind of
setting. So, like what happened with the show on last Saturday? (Note: a concert in Port of
Spain featuring the calypsos of Roaring Lion and Attila the Hun.) That’s where the calypso
belong now. I tell all . . .
HM: It’s in an auditorium like that, with an audience sitting.
LS: Yes, yes. With your undivided attention.
HM: It’s an artistic performance.
LS: Yes.
HM: And like you’re saying, it’s almost dramatic, it’s almost theatrical.
LS: Exactly, exactly. And I tell people, calypso seem to be fut-, the future of calypso is in its
past.
HM: What do you think about that?
LS: Well, nothing. It is what it is. You have to just (Laughs.)
HM: (Laughs.) That’s funny.
LS: You just do that then.
HM: I mean, yeah.
LS: You know?
HM: Does that mean you stop? No.
�15
LS: No. No, you just, like, what they did. Look, they spoke about basically two calypsonians,
Lion and Attila, and it was a whole show about that and what the history of (several missing
syllables).
HM: Why it was important and . . .
LS: Yes.
HM: And getting to hear the music, though.
LS: Hearing the music was, man, that touched my soul.
HM: And it was still fresh, you know even though it was about events, well at least the Graf
Zeppelin was something that happened way back in the 1930’s, it was still fascinating to hear
the stories about it.
LS: The stories and a lot of people don’t know these stories. It’s part of your history, a lot of, you
know. I heard things that I didn’t hear about before. You know, so calypso document the history
of Trinidad and Tobago and the Caribbean and the world to a certain extent, you know. I
remember songs about boxin’, about the fight with Joe Lewis and Max Schmeling and all this
kind of thing. I remember that.
HM: So that it would get a calypso or maybe more than one, you know.
LS: Yes, yes, yes, yes. Any subject you can think of. You can do a few shows with Part One,
Part Two, Part Three in calypso.
HM: I know you traveled with Lord Kitchener, Lord Melody . . .
LS: Mm-hm. Mm-hm.
HM: . . . as a young man, did you, did that influence, did you learn anything about writing songs
from them, composing calypsos from being around them, or your friendship with them?
LS: Yes, yes. To a great extent. I learned some things from, like from Kitchener in particularly.
He was a good musician, a natural musician. He heard things. And he didn’t take the time to
study it scientifically. But he would play a song and follow the chords naturally. I have to do it a
little different. I have to listen a little more and figure out what is the second chord and that kind
of thing.
HM: Where he would just be intuitive about it.
LS: Yes, yes, yes, yes.
35:02
HM: Well, that’s about all the questions I had. Did you, anything that you would like to add to
that? Or that you wanted to sing or? Before we close?
�16
LS: (Strums guitar.) What could I sing for you boy? (Sings.) Trinidad the land of calypso/That is
something everybody know/But in the land of calypso. (Speaks.) I can’t remember this song. I
did in 19-, in ’64.
HM: That’s way back.
LS: ‘64. With a social commentary because there was something here, you know the Lenten
season? At that time one of things they hated calypso, that you can’t sing a calypso during the
Lenten season.
HM: After Ash Wednesday.
LS: Yeah, yes. Cut off. It was almost against the law. The radio would not play it. A friend, if you
start to sing a calypso, a guy could brutalize you.
HM: Wow.
LS: Under an unwritten law.
HM: And they wouldn’t be arrested.
LS: No. And I changed that. The, well, I was in the competition in 1964 and I almost got chased
off the stage. Now, they didn’t do it, eh? But the, very little applause. Nobody put their . . .
HM: You could tell they were having a problem with it.
LS: Yeah. They had a problem with it. They barely tolerated me, but it was important to me to
sing that song. And I always felt that, that was one of the beauty and the power of calypso.
HM: ‘Cause it changes . . .
LS: It’s not pop. It’s not pop music. You will have some popular calypsos, but it’s not the popular
culture. I follow that. I’ll remember the chorus.
LS: (Strums guitar and sings.) Play calypso in Lent/For its love as entertainment/If is so
immoral, don’t play it no time at all/But in Lent they will play rock and roll, meringue, and
mambo/And some these songs more vulgar than calypso.
LS: (Speaks.) And that was the beginning that caused the whole revolution, now they don’t think
about . . .
HM: So that changed it.
LS: That changed it.
HM: It changed after that.
LS: After that.
HM: Wow.
�17
LS: I had the gall to face Catholic Trinidad, the most powerful institution in this land here. And I
sat there, and they barely tolerated it, but I got the message across, you know. So, anyway,
here’s the chorus.
LS: (Sings and plays guitar.) So, play calypso in Lent, yeah/For its love as entertainment/If is so
immoral, don’t play it no time at all/In Lent they will play rock and roll, meringue, and
mambo/And some these songs more vulgar than calypso. (Laughs.)
HM: That’s wonderful.
LS: I must give you another one.
HM: Oh yes, please.
LS: I, when I saw all these problems I pick up the fight to represent calypso. Sometime they
used to call me the Butler of Calypso, the Butler of Calypso. There is a guy from Grenada who
came to Trinidad and he was a union leader. Vibrant, kind of rambunctious kind of fella. And he
had a combination of like a preacher and a politician. And with courage, man, he had people
following him and, you know, they used to call me that. Because I made the first application for
a broadcast license in this country. After I left New York and I wanted to do something for the
calypsonians ‘cause I know about all these problems, and I wrote a song to Eric Williams. It
goes something like this.
39:58
LS: (Sings and plays.) The right and the honorable Doctor Eric Williams/Pan and calypso in
trouble, get me out of this jam/Eight years now I’m trying to get/A broadcast license from you/To
help out the culture, but nothing yet/Tell me, what must I do?/As a born and bred Trinidadian get
me out of this bind/All I’m askin’ is a token, just a piece of your time/Doctor, if you name the time
and if you tell me where/Your humble servant Superior will be there/So here what I want, Doc.
I’m seekin’ permission/To make my contribution to the indigenous cultures we have in this
land/Talkin’ ‘bout calypso and pan, local Indian composition/And anything that evolve in this
land, like parang/That’s how we need our own local radio station for local culture promotion/We
must, you must stop the cultural assassination/Doctor lend a hand, I said stop the cultural
assassination.
LS: (Speaks.) Now listen, at the time we had two radio stations in this country, one owned by
England and one owned by the government.
HM: Two radio stations.
LS: Two radio stations. You had oil boom money pass and they would not play the culture. So, I
did this song and Eric Williams ignore me completely. I ended up, (four missing syllables) eight
years now I trying to get a broadcast license. After eight years . . .
HM: Eight years. Still nothing.
�18
LS: Still nothing. But I was sort of scared of him. I didn’t go toe-to-toe with him. So, right after
that he died. So, we had a new prime minister. And I said, I think I could deal with him and I
wrote the new Prime Minister and he followed up just like Eric Williams. So, I took them to court.
HM: You took them to court?
LS: Took them to court on a constitutional motion. Well, boy, well, of course, they (missing
word) me, “Who’s this little fella with no education and no political connection, nothing?” I last
minute, I stayed in court for about, after three years, they threw me out of court. And charged
me, the court.
HM: Wow. Three years. That must have been expensive, yeah.
LS: (Two or three missing syllables) Well, I was broke at the time. Still broke.
HM: (Laughs.)
LS: But what happen was I talk about it. I didn’t even find out how much money it is because I
didn’t have any money to pay, but common sense told me, what should I do is to buy some
time. I appealed the decision so it is not closed. So, I am before the Court of Appeal now
(Laughs.)
HM: You won’t go away.
LS: No, no. I wouldn’t go away. And the government come and change. So, the new
government, you know when a new government aspirin’ to come in they begin making
promises. So, they spoke to me and thing and I was feelin’ good, you know? Won! (Claps
hands.) So, I went out of the country during the, that’s how I learned to beat pan. I was broke I
went to a little tourist country, there was plenty work in Virgin Islands, tourist industry. So I
played pan in the day and sing in the night. I used to work about 8-10 hours a day. So while I up
there, the government, the new government put a ad in the newspaper, statin’ the government
is not recognizing any old applications for broadcast license. Anyone who is interested will have
to reapply in seven days. I got this message on a Monday. I flew down here by Wednesday.
And at 3:45, the deadline was four o’clock on Friday, at fifteen minutes before four I lodged my
application. It wasn’t filled or anything because I could not do it, but I thought better a halffinished . . .
HM: Turned it in, yeah.
45:26
LA: . . . in than none at all. And you know, then they opened up from, they gave out about fiftysomething license, because the new government had their friends who supported them, who
wanted radio license, but I was in the way. So, I got my license, too. Now (Claps hands.) No
bank is lending me money now because those people ownin’ some of the banks, older people . .
.
HM: They don’t want the competition.
�19
LS: No, no, no. They stole meh format for the culture and everything. I catch my royal. I only
knew, I survive because I was determined. And I got it eventually. That’s how. I beat pan. I
smuggle in some equipment.
HM: Some, bringing some equipment in.
LS: Yes, I subscribed to the (Claps hands.) the radio magazine. The trade magazine and there’s
a station in Cincinnati that is closing down, and they have a console here, for four hundred
dollars, an old, good Rolls Royce, RCA, was very cheap.
HM: So, you were able to bring that equipment in from the States.
LS: Yeah, yes, yes, yes.
HM: So, you started a radio station?
LS: Yes, it’s still in existence.
HM: It’s still, which one is it?
LS: 94.1
HM: 94.1 That’s exciting. That’s an exciting story.
LS: The Boom Champion? Yes, yeah. I’m still on the board and I sold a couple of pieces. I’m
still a shareholder.
HM: You’re still involved.
LS: Yeah, but I want to get out of it now.
HM: Well, I’m going to turn off the mic.
LS: Yeah. Good, good, good, good.
HM: Thank you.
End of interview
�
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
J. Hunter Moore
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Lord Superior (Andrew Marcano)
Location
The location of the interview
Subject's home in Diego Martin, Trinidad and Tobago
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
47:11
Time Summary
A summary of an interview given for different time stamps throughout the interview
Subject sings and/or plays guitar: 5:15, 7:12, 9:36, 12:03, 13:02, 15:28, 37:22, 38:15, 39:58
-------------------------------------------
Notes about interview: A breeze blowing through the open windows caused a periodic rumbling sound, particularly around 13:30 of the interview. As the interview begins, Superior is softly playing a guitar. He continues on and off throughout the interview.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Lord Superior Interview
Description
An account of the resource
Actual Name: Andrew Marcano
Other sobriquets/nicknames: Brother Superior, Superior, Supie, Uncle Supie
Date of birth: November 30, 1937
Place of birth: Rio Claro, Trinidad and Tobago
Lived abroad: lived in U.S. 1964-1970, naturalized U.S. citizen
Awards (as of March 2018): Southern Calypso Monarch, Hummingbird Medal (Silver), 2015,
Honorary Doctor of Letters (University of West Indies, St. Augustine), 2018
Best songs/best-known songs: “Brass Crown,” “Black Coffee,” “All African,” “San Fernando Carnival,”
------------------------------------------
Individuals heard during the interview:
LS: Lord Superior
HM: Hunter Moore
------------------------------------------
Trinidad and Tobago terms and expressions used in the transcript:
Ah: I
Meh: my
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-10-10
-
https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/40461/archive/files/8ea0f277cd302bfc5513b79e68e75ff1.jpg?Expires=1712793600&Signature=WKAIFSZXgDryvzGjylyMTbunkCf9%7EBqgoxllEbT8WqWQn1wVWRMz7zHr27hjQnv2f3rCywbPeRzRuHqyL9L8KnB6HyU1J6L8N5%7E31oS1XbFfxuD-UzpswgYZSLx298YN3p4Y9MwFOF0LDOUlJFo750f7D8AKM4M8Z2zkHcAXBOXjXTbMcWXTA16OOuovg3ctAoWtqHAji0zBcT%7EjQTfzqYjTUudnpeDfjDKxoUXJ1qn-zX3h86V0DcD1yQ%7E8syya1iRxCEL-rArDud0PUGK%7EjecPvcrNHEkRTLDAwewpubpJdu5mFDzOGNBal%7EX7cPBQDnxnx8ESFqriEGQ7WeeIZA__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM
5eedf33a0bb7187e88997fc614e4fcbe
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Sharlan Bailey
https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/40461/archive/files/d01ca58f2c803228c033edc312f09abe.mp3?Expires=1712793600&Signature=tIlUOeDpJ2%7EkJLePvgtbE1FyUcC4j52Qm8Pdpw3baLFj6Pt5eusX6IRD1%7EFpZsUp-%7EPD%7Ej5z1HT%7E049wJWBCCk%7EKGCOSCxRY5m4waLCNVeb03TVncacb5fJGZ4TjwY%7Ew1Pw1l4lJzaHtABzCZAvvigaYWl5SZoPFfeAa%7EhE8qGAiq-dvLjDN5yRLoafSV6JvO9ppJiivwNXPso3DAnqoxRzXiDBhEBpXjhLCM-HufD302Ev59FCRGmAC-txr2mgzKoH2ypes031vkfSwkTrU5E%7EPa5P5UiUTGD%7Epjgf9%7E0C1aPshJEvpNQUPQY1ug1rSSBRM4yqnaK0gY-GzFL4kKw__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM
6caf1cf6a5dadf81b24b9ffaef7f6d24
https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/40461/archive/files/81a22311aff63d495b24d3e8029b1698.pdf?Expires=1712793600&Signature=a1SY2voZymXW8hcJ02l1df1RMDdk1RTaGLcfA32pDKATrcEKnomD-XdBXV596lJERKp8NLzrX%7E2pA4Ix-tenAo3yBAde3YpDh4HALOwGSNHVfB0KkknRPrccBnDyDh4YFMMpEzFyk%7EwPbDLXDDUhwMJZ8d5fYl1yxixd-voqohpELGGDjhvmq8zxRzLerqA5q1Is44yHpnMMfIA9QfzSoqgjFDS4PuJD6jBg5UG2Xj6INor9e4QnOXEta-CKyE9vymVAK1YPeMjhTdE-pXSRjf-Io3Wy8VHNf3gJ9NJjJMACAhxhRl4r4zdq8PJHvRAZphpsFQ3mQS6nnfyjOimUJw__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM
107997513576743eaae732d7cd20c5eb
PDF Text
Text
Interview subject: Sharlan Bailey
Interviewer: J. Hunter Moore
Date: October 31, 2017
Location of interview: Sharlan Bailey’s recording studio, Jerningham Avenue, Port of Spain,
Trinidad and Tobago
Date of birth: February 5, 1979
Place of birth: Trinidad and Tobago
Awards (as of March 2018): NYAC Top Twenty Stars of Tomorrow, Best Family Song, 2008
Best songs/best-known songs: “Ready for the Truth,” “Thank God,” “Take One”
-------------------------------Individuals heard during interview:
SB: Sharlan Bailey
HM: Hunter Moore
-------------------------------Trinidad and Tobago terms and expressions as used in the interview:
Ah: I, a, or as an interjection: “ah!”
Crack-shot pannist—a steel band pannist who is exceptional
Dey: there
Doh: don’t
Eh: ain’t
Mih: me
Nuh: you know
Siddong: sit down
TTT: Trinidad and Tobago Television, television station
--------------------------------Subject sings: 10:51, 27:34
�2
--------------------------------Notes:
Sharlan is the son of legendary calypsonian The Mighty Shadow.
At 7:37 the recorder was turned off and restarted due to an interruption.
_________________
Interview:
HM: So, let’s start with what age did you begin writing calypsos? Did you write calypsos to begin
with or were you writing something different?
SB: Well, based upon love for music, I was trying to write anything growing up, you know?
Whether it be country, whether it be hip hop, whether it be R & B. I had a taste for disco, which
was beyond my age range, but yeah. (Laughs.) But I could remember I did my first calypso at
age seven or eight, which was a song called “Prince from Hell,” which my father had a song
called “King from Hell.” When I first heard about the song, I listened to it on the record. I think I
could do a version, which was “Prince from Hell,” so “Prince from Hell” would have been the first
song.
HM: Did your own version.
SB: That’s right. (Laughs.)
HM: What would you say, you listened to a lot of different kinds of music, what were your main
musical influences growing up?
SB: Main musical influences is a kind of hard thing to put mih finger on, because I would have
listened to anything and there are certain artistes and bands that would have probably
influenced what I was doing because, like I remember growing up Trinidad. Then TV station,
TTT, was showing these Beatles cartoons.
HM: Oh, yeah. We saw those in the States.
SB: Yeah. I was in love with the Beatles’ music, yeah. So, that is one aspect of it. As well as,
when I first saw Prince “Purple Rain,” I sure that is what I wanted to be nuh. I wanted to be the
artist who could pick up anything and play. I wanted to be the writer, the vocalist, you know? So,
it kind of hard. I was, oh ho! Then 80s’ I was growing up too, and I was a real big Michael
Jackson fan.
HM: Yeah.
SB: Yeah, you know? But as I just said Prince, “Purple Rain,” I could also acknowledge talented
artistes as well. I mean Michael would have been the in thing in the 80s’, but I could also
acknowledge these other folks nuh. So as I say, the Beatles, I love The Beatles’ work, ah was
talking about young, which was a strange thing. Most people who knew me, knew that for my
age I had a taste for music that was around before I was even born, you know? And I guess,
too, that the household that I grew up in, ‘cause my mom, she would have grown up in the
�3
calypso and all the popular music of the time. My deceased oldest brother was a crack-shot
pannist.
HM: Hmm.
SB: Yeah. And then my other brother, my older brother Shawn, he was, he started performing
calypsos and things. So, you know it kind of hard to point and say it was this, that, because I
wanted to be everything and everybody, yeah, you know?
HM: So, with all those influences, you’ve written a lot of different kinds of music, what kind, can
you describe the different kinds of music that you’ve written?
SB: Whooo! (Laughter.) Well, before taking the songwriting thing serious and the performing
thing serious. I did rapso. I did rock. I did country. I wrote, I made an attempt at the Bollywood
style stuff. (Laughs.) I touch on everything because I guess too, in listening to all these genres
of music and all these different artistes, I started to realize that there is something happening in
the music that does make the music what it is nuh. And each understanding, each writer had a
style nuh. You know, like for instance, I love Bob Marley work. Bob Marley had a way he would
structure melodies. I mean, as well as like local artistes like Johnny King. The reason I’m saying
that, Johnny King have a way that he does do stuff and the melodies is not like the same
melody you know? But the sound, it is constant because these people putting their self into the
work, nuh, you know?
HM: So, they were putting their, that attracted you. They were putting their personalities into the
work.
SB: That’s right, you know? Plenty of them expressing what they want in sense of political
issues, global issues, or even just party. The whole art of expression, that is really what kind of
called me towards music, yeah.
HM: I have a particular interest in calypso, so when you would write calypso what made it
calypso, what made calypso different than the other kinds of music that you were writing? What
was different about it to you?
SB: I guess Trinidad, because actually that is what I believe about all the genres of music. All
the genres represent the places that it was originated from and you could hear this in the music.
So, when it comes to writing a calypso the things that I would speak about in a calypso, you
understand, is, ‘cause I mean, pop market not gonna talk about people hungry because of the
people they vote for. (Laughs.) You understand?
HM: The party that’s in power.
5:13
SB: That’s right! But calypso will come out die hard and say that, you know? So, I mean calypso
was a place where I could voice Trinidad problems, you know? But I mean, Trinidad is what
make it calypso. The sound, the way we does speak The way we have our singing way we does
speak that in itself, that is in the music. We energy, because I don’t think the rest of the world
could even understand what it means to jump up and wave yuh hand in the air. You have to
�4
actually be born in that culture to understand, what sense that is to jump up and a wave yuh
hand in the air, you know?. So, I guess Trinidad, Trinidad is what makes the music that way.
HM: So, it’s distinctly where the others aren’t. Calypso is distinctly Trinidad.
SB: Mm-hm. Trinidad. You could hear the way we deliver.
HM: Even the phrasing of the speech.
SB: Correct, correct.
HM: How did the other kinds of music that you were writing and listening to affect your calypso?
So, when you wrote calypso, even though it’s distinctly from Trinidad, was it affected by the
other kinds of music that you were listening to?
SB: Of course, of course, of course. I mean come on. When you listen some of these
progressions in sense of chord progressions, some of these people do. In listening to these
other genres of music I understand how to convey emotions using music and it’s a lesson I
didn’t understand. (A few missing syllables) until being an adult and doing production. You
know? So, these things like, I mean c’mon, like John Lennon “Imagine.” Before John Lennon
opens his mouth and sing the first line, you could feel where the song going nuh, you know?
Paul McCartney “Long and Winding Road,” Prince “Purple Rain,” and Sinead O’Connor
“Nothing Compares to You.” These, when you listen to these songs, ‘cause you cannot write a
happy song using minors, you understand? When using minors tempo does make a difference.
‘Cause a slower minor could be melancholy and faster minors could be anger, you know. But
you can’t use minors to create a happy feeling you know? So, understanding these other genres
help plenty in composing songs because up to today, even as much as this year, I wrote a song
where I saw some serious emotional reaction from the audience and I know it was because of
what it was doing musically.
(Knocking on door. Recorder is turned off and then started again after visitor leaves.)
(Edit.)
HM: So yeah, you were just saying that all these other kinds of music and how people were
expressing themselves, then you were able to take and apply to calypso.
SB: That’s correct.
HM: When you’re writing, where do you find your ideas?
SB: Hmm. For me I believe a song does write itself for me. You know? Ah mean I don’t ever set
out to write a topic. I might have had to do that once in mih life because we was doing this
theme song for a function, but other than that, I don’t ever really write based on a topic. Usually
how it does go is, I might be driving, or I might be siddong relaxing. It really don’t have a
particular way, something does just hit mih. Might be a melody, might be a hook, might be just a
chord progression, and once I leave it alone it does manifest into a song.
HM: Is it, it can be either words or music?
SB: Words or music.
�5
HM: Either way?
SB: Either way. Sometimes it might just be a bassline. Yeah, sometimes it might be a bassline
and sometime it might be a drum pattern, it could be anything. So, for me, I does just allow it to
write itself because ah mean it have ah lot of songs where I took like 15 to 20 minutes to write
and based on the fact that it just come.
HM: Just there.
SB: Yeah it does come out and in some cases I have some songs that start off as a melody or a
chorus that just wouldn’t leave mih head. So for like a week, this just coming in mih head but ah
can’t write it and ah can’t develop it so it just dey. So sometimes ah have to pay it no mind and
eventually it would become something.
HM: Leave it alone. Like that. Can you think of a particular song, where you can think about
where the idea, how the idea happened and then it became the song? As in an example. One of
your songs. Like when it happened? Or, you know, the circumstances.
SB: Last year, 2016, mih performance in Kaiso House tent. I had, we had to donate, we had to
submit the song that we were doing for the season and the deadline was passing and ah wrote
this song that ah wasn’t quite comfortable with. Ah does feel like, ah felt like ah was being
forced to have to write something, so ah said this is the song, this is what ah going and do.
Three days before the people rehearsal, I went outside with mih guitar in front the house
because I am a night person. Most of the stuff that I write is during the night, after 2, 3 in the
morning. I sit down outside in the yard in a place called Cocorite. And all of ah sudden, I hearing
this song.
10:51
SB: (Sings.) “The problem is yuh face boy, the problem is yuh face.”
SB: (Speaks.) Now my father, being the calypsonian that he is who happen to be the Mighty
Shadow, alright? For his whole career has suffered under the competitions and the judges. Until
he for a big part of his career wage a war against the system, right? And over my time as a
performer I have written for people who for the first time saw the Calypso Monarch Semi-finals.
Some of them the first time seeing a Monarch Finals you know? But somehow my work eh
working for me. I never make a semi-final, I never make a Monarch final, so it have nothing to
do with the music, nuh. So, for a while, it bother mih because most of the people who around
me who “Boy, this year!” And I can’t talk that talk because they never pick me for anything, yuh
understand? And the song happen where I wanted to tell them that I understand why they don’t
pick mih. The problem is ah resemble something you don’t like, you understand? And the song
one time, two, three verses hit me at one time. And ah said this is the song! So I scrap the
original idea three days before rehearsal went and did the arrangement over, sent it to the guy
who scored it for mih and that was the song for the season and it turn out to be a really good
season too. A real good season.
HM: Yeah, was that called “Legacy”?
�6
SB: That’s right, that is “Legacy” (Laughs).
HM: I heard that, I enjoyed that. In looking at the songs that you write as a group, or as a whole,
are there particular themes that come out, that you go back to or you can say, “You know, this is
something that I’ve written about more than once?
SB: Hmm. I think there is a topic that I’ve touched more than once you know? Which is the only
person that could fix the problems we face is ourselves, nuh. One of the songs, I had, I can’t
remember, I can’t quite, “Faking Evil” where the ending line of the chorus I said “if you want to
change the world, change your mind.” You know? And then, there’s this next one called “A
Special Day,” where I wrote for a young lady by the name of Stacey Sobers where she talk
about “wake up and love your country enough to save it,” nuh. And there are a couple other
songs where I deal with more, “We could fix we,” nuh, you know? We could fix we.
HM: So, sort of personal responsibility.
SB: Yes, yes.
HM: This is going, kind of sharp turn here, but what instruments do you play?
SB: Well, because I’s a fella with no formal training (Laughs.), understand? Ah don’t want to
officially say ah could play something but, really and truly, I play guitar, I play a little keyboards
especially for the sake of the production is keyboard usually. So, guitar, keyboard, harmonica.
As a little boy I owned a melodica, I always promised myself to get back one. Actually, one time
I played as a bass man for the “Love Circle” once.
HM: What do you write on mostly? On guitar?
SB: Yes, guitar. But mostly in mih head before the guitar.
HM: So, this was gonna come next. Was, so, we kind already kind of talked about how you start
a song, and so when you’re writing you don’t pick up an instrument right away?
14:47
SB: Not necessarily, not necessarily. It’s hard to prove anything I does, but because I was kind
of introverted growing up, yeah. (Laughs.) So, I have a certain level of comfort with my own self.
So, I mean even my family are quite aware of the fact that I speak to myself plenty, yeah. but it’s
not really speaking to myself. What is happen is that I would go into these images in my head
and become, be in the space that I see in my head and carry on the conversations in my head,
not really realizing that we in the real world and yeah!
HM: It was coming out, yeah.
SB: Basically, I introverted, so most of the stuff does be in my head. I would be sitting and
having a conversation and sometimes you just see me zone out in the conversation, I am
probably writing, you know? Or sometimes I’m talking to you and irritable, it because I’m writing.
You know? And so I’m fighting to listen to you and . . .
�7
HM: Trying to do this and carry on the conversation, it’s really hard.
SB: Yeah.
HM: But how far along do you get before you actually put anything down in terms of recording or
writing anything down? Will you finish the song completely before you do that?
SB: I actually, doh ever write it down. And it’s a problem because I don’t ever write it down.
Because, if I like a idea that happening in my head, once I play a couple bars of it on the guitar
or whatever instrument that’s in front of me. Because the whole instrument playing thing for me
is really, when I started off, you would have producers who telling you, you should do this or you
should do that and being as stubborn as I is, I find I write this song, this way ‘cause it have to be
this way. Because that was a problem I realized that if I could do it myself then I won’t have to
depend on someone else to play it for me. So, the desire to always correct that was why I would
pick up an instrument and I will play and do my own thing. So sometimes, it could be the song
hit me now and I will do it one time. Perfect example: Ah, there’s this song on YouTube called “I
Come Out To Fete.”
HM: I saw the title.
SB: “I Come Out to Fete” was one of the two songs that I did in a night last year between 6 to 10
pm. I came in here. I locked the door. I composed the song. I built the beat. I played some
guitars. I laid down some guitars. I did the backing tracks. I sing the lead and then ah move on
to the next song. So that night was two songs I completed to the point all I needed to do was
mix now. I didn’t come to the studio with an idea. I had no idea what I was going to do. I just
come in the studio.
HM: You knew you were coming to the studio to do something.
SB: Something. What I’ll say though is that the progression been haunting me awhile. So, I
know exactly this is the loop I want to use and I started to structure stuff to it and while I was
building the beat the song coming while I was building.
HM: So, it was coming while you were putting the beat, the loop together, the progression.
SB: Putting it together. I still I ain’t write down that song yet. But once I hear the chords, I will
play it and it just come back.
HM: So, you didn’t really have it until you recorded it. I mean . . .
SB: Correct.
HM: You were recording it as it was being written.
SB: As it was written.
HM: That’s interesting. So, do you, would you say that generally that it might not happen just
like that, but that the song is pretty much finished in your head before you ever put it down?
SB: Yeah, because even when I’m working with clients as a producer, by four lines into your
song I already know what I want to do, you know? And, and . . .
�8
HM: It’s all up here.
SB: It’s always the package, you know. So, even when I’m hearing songs, with all the talk I’m
talking about writing songs, once I’m hearing songs in my head, I’m also hearing music. I’m
hearing a bassline. I’m also hearing a drum beat.
HM: You’re hearing the production.
SB: Yeah. I’m hearing the production, you know.
HM: And arrangement.
SB: Where in, under theoretically they does call it the life motif, I have this joke we does have in
the studio here working together with a lot people, where I does say, “The vision already there.”
The vision already there, just waiting for me to bring it to life. You know, ‘cause a couple lines
that you sing to me, I would already know what I’m gonna do with this song, where I’m going to
bend it, what instruments I need. Yeah so it does be a quick process for me nuh.
HM: Well, because I’m just thinking it’s sort of, you have the same approach with yourself that
you do with somebody else. In a way when you, when the idea hits you, you’re already, “Boom!”
You’re thinking production. You’re thinking even when it’s coming to you, for you. You’re
thinking the same way.
SB: That’s right
HM: As if someone is sitting here singing it for you.
SB: That is correct, correct.
20:07
HM: You answered some of these like particular time of day. So, late at night is usual for you
and location? Do you like to do it outside or you sound like you like to go outside with your guitar
or just go outside to write, or?
SB: Ah always does like being outside with my guitar. Writing, I used to believe is an outside
thing, but over the years I realized that it’s not, nuh. It could happen anywhere.
HM: Anywhere, anytime.
SB: ‘Cause some cases, noise does encourage it. There’s been a crowded place and all kinds
of things happening and ah do the thing where I turn the volume off in mih head.
HM: You get good at that, right? As an introvert. Just shutting everything else out.
SB: Yeah. Just shutting it out and I could just go on and on, you know? (A few missing words)
What I know over the years, production, music production kind of slowed down the writing a little
bit. And it have its advantages and disadvantages because when I was just a songwriter I, that
�9
was all that I was doing every day, an average of three to five songs just writing, writing.
Actually, I have about four micro cassettes full of material that I mean I’ve never listened back to
yet. Well, but based on when I used to write, I have books, you know, and as I said because of
the process of having these songs coming and how they come, well, one will come and while I
sitting with the guitar working chords, all of a sudden something else hit me and I would just
leave that and move to that, but in the process, I could end up forgetting what was before. And
anything as simple as having to get up and look for a pen, and a book or page or something.
HM: Would slow it down.
SB: Slow down the process so I just throw that whole thing and stay dey. Sit writin’ in the same
position and as it comes ah put some chords in and move on, put some chords in and move on.
So, when it start to slow down, then I would go back to them, each of them and listen back to
what I was doing.
HM: And even the ones that you jumped from one to the other, you would . . .
SB: That’s right.
HM: . . . go back and listen to where you started and what you started with.
SB: That’s right.
HM: Does being, because you are also a performer as well, . . .
SB: Yes.
HM: . . . does being a performer affect what you write? Does it influence what you write, rather
than if you were just a pure writer for other people?
SB: Yeah, ‘cause as the song I referred to just now, the “Legacy” song, nobody else coulda sing
that song because of what it was saying, you know?
HM: No. Because it was about you.
SB: Yeah, so being a performer really does affect it.
HM: What about just being on stage and having the experience of being on stage? Does that
influence what you, how you write?
SB: Kind of, you know? Because ah mean, when I on stage performing my work, I am a
different person in the sense of, I actually believe in what I say now so, the person who
delivering. I am more connected to delivering the song rather than connecting with the
audience.
HM: You’re more focused on the material.
SB: Yeah.
HM: When you’re performing rather than speaking to the people that are right there.
�10
SB: Because I sometimes could have a little ego too, sometimes so that when ah finish the
song, the only reason why I’m performing it is because I believe that it ready.
HM: Because why?
SB: Because I believe it ready, you know, and I wouldn’t perform something that I don’t believe
not ready. So, when I believe it ready I kind of cut the whole reaction from the audience thing in
half, you understand? And then I think over the years I understand the science of making people
laugh, making people move. Because I will always remember, I had some years ago, I had this
song called “Head of State,” right? I don’t wanna call what genre it is because it could be
considered as rapso as well as calypso. So, I don’t have half clue as to what it was. It was me
experimenting. But in “Head of State” there is this line that was recommending myself as a
president for life and I was stating the things that I would have done, if, had I been their
president for life. And in the third verse, there is this line where I was explaining to fix the heavy
marijuana culture Trinidad and Tobago has, we should put a law in place that “Marijuana would
be legal for religious use/ ‘Cause that’s how you control substance abuse/So all them youth men
who just pulling hard/Watch them one by one start finding God,” you know? And I remember
that line in particular was a difficult line for me, because I’m going to sing this in the calypso tent
and the audience in the tent is not 16 and 25. It is a mature crowd. (Laughs.)
HM: More like 60.
24:57
SB: (Laughter.) Yuh understand? In order for me to perform the song I had not think about the
audience, I had to think about the song. And I go out there and this is what I want to say and
deliver what I want to say and they go understand it. And so said, so done! Every night when I
would say the line this audience would be laughing, ah mean ah understand, the humor of it is
because they expect me to say something like that because I said, “Make this rasta yuh
president,” you know, and so it was more or less anticipated at some point he going to talk
about marijuana, you know? So, when I get past that whole audience thing, I coulda deliver the
song the way I want, I, this is what I want to say, nuh.
HM: Why, how you meant it, how you intended it.
SB: Yeah. and they took it, they enjoy it. And actually “Head of State” is a song that I could
perform anywhere because ah mean, ah test it in a mature crowd and it work. I remember once
there was this little party thing happening in the back of Phase II where they had a lot of these
beat men who was chanting, doing the dancehall thing, nuh. And they were doing a little
dancehall chanting thing bum-bum-ba-bum and the guy who was Trini it well he knew me and
asked if I could do a little one or two songs. I said I would do one, so I borrowed somebody
guitar and did “Head of State” and flatten that place! Under all the dancehall thing that I was
worried about that they might not be into this. It work. It work.
HM: It worked.
SB: Yeah, and if I keep studying the audience you wouldn’t perform half your material, you just
have to do the song. This is what you’re goin’ to do, this what you want to say, you don’t need to
fix nothing, go out there and deliver it.
�11
HM: It worked. When you’re writing for yourself, do you write differently . . .
SB: Yes.
HM: . . . than you write for somebody else?
SB: Definitely. Definitely.
HM: And how is that different?
SB: Let me see, my approach is what I want to sound like, what I want to say . . .
HM: Personally.
SB: . . . and how I want to say it you know? When I’m doing work for other folks, yes it’s my
opinion still, but these people have to perform the song, so I have to find a way where they
could deliver with the same comfort as if I was writing for myself, nuh. And as well as, too, it has
certain styles of calypso that I wouldn’t touch because I totally find it boring. Ah mean honestly I
find some of it boring. You know, we have, it have a, ‘cause really and truly, it have the
traditionalist aspect of calypso where when a person writing a calypso, it have these standards
that they use.
SB: (Sings.) “Pa da pam pi day/ Pa da pam pi day dai.”
SB: (Speaks.) And you will hear about five or six songs using the same movement.
HM: Using the same pattern.
SB: Yeah, and I wouldn’t go there.
HM: That doesn’t interest you.
SB: Yeah, it doesn’t excite me in anyway, so my, well as I tell you because of what influence me
growing up, I always wanted to be a game changer. So, whatever I do, the sound must be
different and I think that I accomplish, accomplishing that.
HM: Yeah, you don’t want to do, I mean you respect tradition, but you don’t want to just copy it.
SB: Yeah. I think and I guess because I understand how necessary change is, nuh. And, yes,
we have to respect, but my thing with tradition is that we have to acknowledge it. We have to
understand it and then it could move on. Like I could remember there was this joke ah does give
folks. My second year in Calypso House, Kaiso House, sorry. I had this song called “Shadow
Son.” The song was based on that I could, I doing this nice music. “I do this vibes that you
would like to hear/But I know you going and miss this one/ Because you busy listening to
Shadow son/You not listening to Sharlan, nuh.” Right? And the thing with the song, it had this
groove, where I was doin’ this drum pattern line (imitates rhythm). The bass line is (sings bass
line). And the bass was blow mind. And I remember when I was sitting with Mr. Thomas scoring
it, the tent manager at the time was explaining to me that the chords that I was using should
have been sevenths, and I told him, “No!” He said, “No, it had to be sevenths to get the funk
flavor out it. I said, “But I was never writin’ funk.” He said, “No, but you have to understand how
�12
chords does work and thing.” I said, “But I didn’t write it that way.” He said, “O God, understand
what I tryin’ to say. I’m not trying to challenge you. I understand what you’re doin’, you gotta
know . . .” Really and truly in all fairness, he’s one of them folks who has been supporting what I
been doing over the years, even though he’s not the manager no more. But he kept insisting
that I must use sevenths and I just rebelling, “No,” and he come to this point where he said,
“You need to understand, in order to break the rules, you have to understand the rules.” I tell
him no, in order to break the rules you have to believe that you have no rules at all.
Understand? (Laughs.) Ah mean the final thing was I get my way because it was my song. It
was my song.
HM: Ultimately, you get to choose. How often do you write? Are you writing right now? How
often do you, is it every day? Or is it once a week? Or what would you say? Right now.
30:25
SB: It could be a couple songs a week.
HM: A couple songs a week. Generally, kind of average.
SB: Yeah, because of the production. I think how, with what creativity is, if I throw in some of
that energy behind songwriting and I throw some of that energy behind production, none of
these things get 100%.
HM: You have to divide your time.
SB: Yeah. So, the writing slow down because of that aspect of it.
HM: Because you might be really working on a production project.
SB: Correct.
HM: That’s taking all your time and energy.
SB: Correct, correct.
HM: But then when you’re done with that then you can go right back into it.
SB: Yeah, go back to it. Back to normal, normal.
HM: Well, that’s all I have, but is there anything you’d like to add that we, that we didn’t talk
about or you wanna go back to?
SB: I think I recall you talk about the influences. Oh-hoh, I was a big David Bowie fan. Yeah,
which kind of weird because people my age growing up aint know nothing about David Bowie,
ah mean who the hell is David Bowie, you understand? But I’m a big David Bowie fan and
another point, ah love Nina Simone, you know, the influence is so great. My thing is, my
intention is never to really fuse calypso but use the elements of the other stuff that I like.
HM: Just to pull them in.
�13
SB: Yeah, because I think the problem with calypso right now is calypso missing growth
because it losing writers. You know, and we, as a youth man growing up, watching Dimanche
Gras shows and stuff, well I could tell you because technically I grew in calypso based on my
father. And also from a age, single-digit age I know what a calypso tent is and I understand the
concept of that, you know. And one thing that used to stand out with calypsonians for me was
each had a personality, nuh. But when you checkin’ people who had their own personality in
their work, with their own sound and style, it was the writers who was performing their own work,
nuh. So you have guys like Watchman, Johnny King, and my old man, he is the epitome of that.
Kitchener (a few missing syllables) and what he was doing. And that stayed constant with me
nuh so when I make the decision to want to become a performer as well as a writer, I wanted to
have my own brand and that missing. Plenty people who jumping in now will go and buy a song
and they will go by a producer and he gon’ build a beat and then he going out dey and we gon’
get into the semi-finals and Skinner Park because we gonna make plenty money. But
their heart’s not in it nuh and calypso right now missing its personality, nuh.
HM: So, because the performers are not writing their own material . . .
SB: Not writing their own material.
HM: . . . it’s losing some personality.
SB: Yeah, when you have the same three people writing for everybody, eventually the music
going to sound the same.
HM: Right.
SB: And in all fairness the same three people that writing for everybody not talented with
melodies. They just writer writers, or authors. They not writing their own compositions.
HM: They just recycling melodies.
SB: Yeah, because they not really that good at it and I think calypso right now really need that,
nuh. So, it be scary right now when I look at the juniors coming up and I don’t see writers, you
know. So, what will happen? According to my father, said “Ah man hand get sick you will stop
sing?” You understand?
HM: So, you lose that personality
SB: I think that is something now. You have an argument, the people who don’t write have an
argument, where as soon as they’re talkin’ about songwriting and writing calypso, they refer to
Michael Jackson. Which some of them don’t realize that Michael actually write some of his work.
HM: Yeah, he did.
SB: You understand? And they try to point fingers at the business, international business, where
the songwriting culture is a different thing from the actual performing. But what they not
connecting that Trinidad with we tight, little, small world, a calypsonian is a title, ‘cause
somebody performing rock, we just call them a rock musician. Somebody performing country, a
country artist, you understand? But a calypsonian . . .
�14
HM: That means something.
SB: Means something. Is like saying I is an emcee. I is a rapper. You have to be deliverin’ your
own, can’t have a ghost writer and talking emcee talk. (Laughs.) You understand? You know?
And it’s not that I’m against the people who don’t write, I think the problem is that they don’t
respect the people who actually writing calypso. That is my problem, that they don’t
acknowledge, that it is an important thing to be able to write.
HM: That if they’re an artist, do they know it’s important to write.
SB: Yeah. The sad part is they know because most of the people who don’t write and might
purchase a song from someone, when you bring up the topic they does get real sensitive. So
that means they acknowledge the importance of being a writer. You know, but they just wouldn’t
take the time because their interest is not the music. You understand?
HM: So, they’re not being encouraged to write at a younger age. It’s more about the performing.
SB: Performing. And that is the thing, I didn’t come through the junior monarch as much as I
started writing at a young age. I didn’t come through the junior monarch situation. Who knows, I
might have been the same way too. Because the junior monarch situation promote go get a
song from your school teacher sort of thing.
HM: Just to focus on performing, get a song from somewhere else.
SB: That’s right and nobody’s encouraging these youths to write, you know, because they not
realizin’ that by tomorrow you setting up there. So, if you encourage tomorrow them to write you
will save tomorrow, but if you not encouraging to write the future kind of scary. Like that thing,
the culture of buying a song when it comes to calypso is a little too much. Because now is a
whole name brand culture happening to calypso music, because if you don’t go by this man you
don’t have a good thing to compete with. Come on man! You know and when you check out
people like Spoiler, Spoiler was making Monarch finals and thing doing humor. We don’t see
that happening again. If you not crying on the stage, if you not serious or you attacking the
government, is a waste of time for you, you not seeing no Dimanche Gras and we need to fix
that. That is a big, big problem in calypso, but other than that, kaiso, people does say
sometimes kaiso could be dying, but kaiso can’t die. No music could die.
HM: It’s too deep a tradition.
SB: That’s right. It’s already embedded itself in soca, so if soca live kaiso can’t die, you
understand? (Laughs.) You know, and only thing, if rapso live, kaiso can’t die because that all,
is the mother of all, you know?
HM: Kinda like the mother.
SB: That’s right. Yuh understand? All these little offspring running around the place and, yeah,
there are new faces on the block, but the mother is still the mother, you know?
End of interview
�15
�
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
J. Hunter Moore
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Sharlan Bailey
Location
The location of the interview
Sharlan Bailey's recording studio, Jerningham Avenue, Port of Spain, Trinidad and Tobago
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
37:23
Time Summary
A summary of an interview given for different time stamps throughout the interview
Subject sings: 10:51, 27:34
---------------------------------
Notes:
Sharlan is the son of legendary calypsonian The Mighty Shadow.
At 7:37 the recorder was turned off and restarted due to an interruption.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Sharlan Bailey interview
Description
An account of the resource
Date of birth: February 5, 1979
Place of birth: Trinidad and Tobago
Awards (as of March 2018): NYAC Top Twenty Stars of Tomorrow, Best Family Song, 2008
Best songs/best-known songs: “Ready for the Truth,” “Thank God,” “Take One”
--------------------------------
Individuals heard during interview:
SB: Sharlan Bailey
HM: Hunter Moore
--------------------------------
Trinidad and Tobago terms and expressions as used in the interview:
Ah: I, a, or as an interjection: “ah!”
Crack-shot pannist—a steel band pannist who is exceptional
Dey: there
Doh: don’t
Eh: ain’t
Mih: me
Nuh: you know
Siddong: sit down
TTT: Trinidad and Tobago Television, television station
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-10-31
-
https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/40461/archive/files/8e02791b0d7c0883b55339ca22270131.jpg?Expires=1712793600&Signature=H8Ww3QHL4ihiWrdumdNGH6mXnzTjBmQ-pHXyIbPVBe-XZosMcoAoLn2PVZCFjqFkE33mq8azCozmmslVP-ro48PZ2eFNxxi0Ty-SDkEGFOQ2J5p1hQH6zXrtesshhV%7ECJzq3ZBln5YVA6lIjFhnSaCnFC6Kzc9nV6cTffVKxkhlRRTQ5m%7EuvgvwgL8HYI%7ET46qJgp%7EGwHjzE7KEwT-9U7cpZ%7E6xNy9YZ7KAXiTnf0EoTTZixFOsHUOjGjHw4SYyxx7QBg0H1spJDJWIg6LFuRIbh20JCQIYF29BKtiEALKxt%7EgOe8OrBVWHLP7gU1rU4Ffjz59NinHGgt5-4e0mg6w__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM
a07eed5e0aefc8e56fc3e7d8f3287334
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Shirlane Hendrickson
https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/40461/archive/files/af6dc7933b53680ee055846f49b72851.mp3?Expires=1712793600&Signature=lDVZfROLufIJ7SWzjn8%7EVHOxF3oNXDa6SQ90TdRzcfPlEUl7HsdInywOhtYWXToicVdkjlHb5zS53-tJMtmaGomLW03O7oMjMgOPm9eFJdQ8ZFiw8iVVM2YzxQze1NiFUZ0%7EOmLptuH05VVAfwxxKzPn5lfQwCyI1VIexT8-mpPwwX9HYZke-PHRbgpi-LmoV7Q3qbH32tCh-9b1axAzGOhwnbdZLqTRdhSoJrTtiSuvNPbNN7LiOuYYKm8x4k5RDxhRjOtB28p30ESUG3b9JNGt%7E4pX18611kh4b1X0TDrOSC9wLtU6GxTkmy1hp2x4xYb-vz5Ki1dbFXZyYeIGwg__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM
a4b4204532e0dcb5147bb28bd880f28e
https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/40461/archive/files/81ccb687ecce827145d47b38aff7f084.pdf?Expires=1712793600&Signature=EuxQhFiyscG-%7E22j8UDaTeYmAzYIuQwfY75SyR9FcAjDGzrLE%7EH58UZlpAO%7E682WTBQrRvJAXKRKCGnI7e1H%7E5-tZTDORAWa8NdMQSJPY8ebzYml08fuyONtBWpxzG8s%7EP428497PDTDumALfJXRDMt0VnbiSTtNzIpRhsObnzxhH36-pofqoqfYVDXoPCOPViuOAL%7EVulIoEBcsTmDxViQQXLAUmU57gTShJUaQgqAZB92QKyK4ME-TrV%7E14%7ESgyD0wk09yWuR1I5Vk2UhV9Y1tmV7KoKiuAxvOYbgbLcCfWpEoNqfa9IVmCsxL4qpNMaNiCl1yLYAT4GXlF7bDzw__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM
b5fe9db292ed748ee56a5628175e6f4e
PDF Text
Text
Interview subject: Shirlane Hendrickson
Interviewer: J. Hunter Moore
Date: November 6, 2017
Location of interview: Queens Park West, Port of Spain, Trinidad and Tobago
Date of birth: October 29, 1961
Place of birth: Trou Macaque, Laventille, Trinidad and Tobago
Lived abroad: splits time between U.S. and T&T, naturalized U.S. citizen
Awards (as of March 2018): four times Calypso Queen, 1998-2001
Best songs/best-known songs: “Understanding,” “Teach the Youth,” “Casava”
---------------------------Individuals heard during the interview:
SH: Shirlane Hendrickson
HM: Hunter Moore
---------------------------Trinidad and Tobago terms and expressions used in the interview:
Extempo: a form of calypso in which two singers take turns insulting each other via
extemporized verse set to an established melody, known traditionally as picong or “war”
Kaiso: calypso, a “kaiso kaiso” is a true calypso
Mih: my
Nuh: you know
Pan: steel band music. Refers to both the individual musical instruments and the music as a
genre
Sans humanite’: a traditional calypso melodic refrain, often used for extempo lyrics
Soca: short for “soul calypso.” An up-tempo, dance-oriented style of music originating in
Trinidad and Tobago. Soca lyrics generally relate to celebration, particularly Carnival. Soca is
currently the most popular form of music in Trinidad and Tobago
TUCO: Trinbago Unified Calypsonians’ Organisation, promotes calypso and calypsonians
-----------------------------
�2
Subject sings: :24, 19:20, 19:29
-----------------------------Note about interview: At 4:45 the recording was stopped, the volume adjusted, and the
recording was started again
------------------------------Interview:
HM: Okay, Shirlane. What age did you begin writing calypsos?
SH: I started after listening to Dad sing and Mummy write and we would all trump in little lines.
1985. I actually sat down and wrote my first entire calypso called “Victimization.”
HM: “Victimization,” do you remember any of it?
SH: (Sings and taps on table.) Victimization, oh-oh, but what is the plan, unh-unh/A psychology
for having black man keeping down black man/And over centuries we were oppressed by the
massa man/But true frustration we join these oppressors, understand/But we are striving as a
nation, oh gosh, so these parasitic values spell degradation, unh-hunh/I am the senior girl on my
job and I workin’ hard, so hard/They put a junior man in my post. Look, I goin’ mad, mad,
mad/And then they walk about with disinterest, oh gosh/How we must love one another to force
the black consciousness, mmm/But if we really want this reconstruction, oh gosh/Talk to your
inner man and stamp out victimization. Hoooo!
HM: Nice. You remember it very well.
SH: (Laughs.)
HM: Did you perform it?
SH: One time. And then my dad took it.
HM: Ah, he started playing it, singing it.
SH: You know, and he actually recorded it.
HM: How nice. For you, I bet that felt really good.
SH: Oh Yeah. Oh yeah. You know, so, and that was when I had just started attending UWI,
University of the West Indies, doing my first degree in Business Management and I started like,
you know, being exposed from home upbringing, you’re working, I was working at Ministry of
Works at the time and going to school, so I had at least accomplished that kind of working
experience and going to university.
HM: Yeah. That’s good.
(Mic is moved away from subject to reduce volume.)
�3
HM: Well, you obviously came up in a very musical family, so . . .
SH: Oh, yeah.
HM: . . . that was one way your family influenced you. Were, how else did it influence your
writing, so, I mean you, your mother wrote, right, also?
SH: Mummy wrote, but we have been fortunate, my sister and I, to have grown up around that
whole foliage of calypsonians. So, you would have Auntie Rosie, of course we would call her
affectionately Calypso Rose, who would always tell us, “Baby girl? Write, write, write. Write your
own stuff,” because she has written her music, her calypsos. As well as Pretender. Before he
passed, he would be like, “Rhyme, rhyme, rhyme. Write, write, write,” you know. And we have
been around all these elders in calypso before those who have passed, those were here with
us, and as well as Lord Kitchener has always been my father’s idol. He started singing there in
1967 with him, and Kitchener from the old school would tell you if you, he didn’t consider you
much if you weren’t like a composer, calypsonian.
HM: That was part of the package.
SH: Yeah.
HM: Was writing as well as singing.
SH: You know? So that I’ve come out of that school of thought.
HM: You grew up with that.
SH: Yeah.
HM: So, you were. . .
SH: I was always like . . .
HM: . . . always encouraged to write even . . .
SH: Mm-hm.
HM: . . . even though, you know, as a female, not just a male.
SH: Yeah.
HM: As a female it was important for you to write just as much.
SH: To write. Because of course you know on the down side you would hear of all these stories
of women who have to now go lovey to get a calypso from either the composer’s crop or
another fellow artiste and sometimes they were faced with challenges. But I was not that I have
to say. I was thankful, well, God had given me that extra talent, you know, as well as when you
study the elders in calypso they will tell you, calypsonians were like this: something happened in
Trinidad now, you were supposed to write about that now. There was no waiting for the next
season. No, so it was always topical.
�4
HM: Something . . .
SH: If something happened and that’s why we say, “By calypso, our stories are told.”
HM: While it was fresh.
SH: Yeah. Always fresh. You know, whatever the, if it’s a social action, political action, it was a
party atmosphere, whatever it was, right. (Laughs.)
(Edit.)
HM: So, do you write anything else besides calypso?
SH: Yeah, I write songs and you know . . .
HM: What other kinds . . .
SH: . . .poems.
HM: . . . what style of music besides calypso, would you say?
4:56
SH: Just about every and anything. I’ve written chutney. I went to the chutney, soca chutney . . .
HM: Oh, the . . .?
SH: Yes. I made it up to the semifinal. Yes. I’ve written slow R&B songs. I’ve also written reggae
crossover with soca, you know, so I’ve touched a little bit . . .
HM: Several different styles.
SH: Yes. Yes.
HM: Well, how do you know when it’s calypso, so when you’re writing and you say this is
calypso, what is the, what’s the difference?
SH: Well, then, I may not be able to, let’s say, define like, okay, “Calypso is this, calypso is that,”
but somehow you know because listening to the elders over the years, you know. Calypso has a
certain rhythm, a certain way the lyrics are put together, you know, a vernacular, so then you
must know, “Well, that’s a calypso,” you know, and then . . .
HM: In a way, it’s in the music and the words?
SH: It’s in music and sometimes in the words, you know, and of course you know we have so
many genres out of Mother Calypso, you know, the rapsos, and the, you know, all these new
wave whatever you call those things, you know, ‘cause right now they’re fusing R&B with a
�5
calypso beat. As a matter of fact, on some of those, you would see, I would re-record, like some
of the R&B’s of yesteryear . . .
HM: Classic R&B.
SH: . . . with a calypso beat. So, you have a nice dancefloor style, but you know the song.
HM: But it’s something distinctive, there is something distinctive about calypso.
SH: You must know a calypso when you hear it, you know.
HM: But it’s, do you think a lot of it is just growing up with it, or just being familiar with it, that you
know, “That’s calypso.”
SH: Yes, and no, actually. Some people, and yes, you are right in a way, because modern day,
the children of this generation, they will talk about soca, and they will be able to, you know, call
down some socas.
HM: Some different kinds of things.
SH: And then when you sing some calypsos, unless they have been brought up with a relative
from yesteryear or they were around people who are familiar with the calypso art form, then they
will be looking at you like, “What is she talking about?” And sometimes it’s not too far in the
past, you know. But because they are the soca children, we call them, the soca youths, you
know. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
HM: So, I mean part of that is an education and that education can come different ways. It can
come through your family . . .
SH: Yes.
HM: Or just hearing the music, . . .
SH: Yes.
HM: . . . you know, or . . .
SH: And part of that is why we keep lobbying that the government take it a little more seriously,
and have it as a curriculum, a part of the subject matter in school.
HM: So they are getting it regularly.
SH: Yeah. They say that they have started, but until I really see someone doing the essay
exams and calypso is one of the subject matters, yes, yeah. I’m happy that UTT has that
program Carnival Studies where at least part of it would be calypso, you know?
HM: When you compose calypso, when you’re composing a calypso are you influenced by other
kinds of music? Or just, or when you’re, say, “I’m writing a calypso, so I’m really just focusing on
that.”
SH: No, sometimes what I try to do is become more and more innovative.
�6
HM: Within calypso.
SH: Within calypso. So that, I’m listening to other new wave styles, whatever’s happening, new
in the market. It could be rock. Sometimes opera. I wrote a calypso in pan. We call those pan
calypsos. But I was actually going up in some ranges, you know (Sings several ascending notes
in an operatic style.)
HM: That’s more classical.
SH: Yeah. Inside the, inside of it.
HM: But still staying in calypso.
SH: It’s calypso, you know. So, I try to become more and more, because sometimes you have
to move away from the bum-ba-dum-ba-dum (Demonstrates a classic calypso feel by humming
and tapping on table.) You know?
HM: And there’s a way to keep it fresh.
SH: Yes. Keep it fresh.
HM: But keep it calypso.
SH: And keep the people there with you. They admire that, you know. When you could sing like
a kaiso kaiso, but when you hear the rhythm, you can dance to it, you know. It’s different, you
say, “Mmm, I like that melodic structure.”
HM: So it’s familiar but it’s something a little new.
SH: Yeah.
HM: So it’s not totally the same thing every time.
SH: Yeah.
HM: But it’s not so strict that it’s got to, that the first two lines have to rhyme.
SH: Yeah.
HM: That kind of thing.
SH: Like when I composed with Clive Telemaque of Massey Trinidad All Stars, he had written
one verse and one chorus of a calypso he called “Excitement” and called me, that I remember in
2014, so 2013 for 2014. And they came second, the band came second. He said, he called me,
“Shirlane, I have something here. And I want you to finish it.” So I finished it, the next two
verses, and it was the other year that one of the calypso judges spoke to me, a judge in music.
And he said, you know, “You have gone a level up.” Well, I didn’t understand what the poor man
was talking about. I said, “Well, what do you mean?” He said, “You’re not writing 6-1-2-5.” I’m
like, “What is 6-1-2-5,” and he tried his best to explain to me musically. I’m like, “Oh!” I go to tell
him 6-1-2-5 is the last four digits of my cell phone, but (Laughter.) I was so cool with that.
�7
HM: But, yeah, you were using some different chords . . .
10:15
SH: Yeah.
HM: . . . than just the usual pattern.
SH: Not the usual chords, yeah.
HM: You were just using your ear and bringing that into the more traditional . . .
SH: Yeah.
HM: . . . form.
SH: Yeah.
HM: And he was appreciating that.
SH: Yeah. (Laughs.)
HM: As a writer, where do you find your ideas?
SH: Well, it can come from just about, you know, any crazy thing and anytime. So it could be
mid-day, one in the morning, two in the morning. Sometimes as I said, something could happen
in the country, you know. Like one of my calypsos for 2018 would be “Property Tax,” yeah, you
know.
HM: ‘Cause that’s going on right now.
SH: Because it’s ongoing. And even though it’s kinda little quiet because of the budget, you
know, it’s property tax, but then I would look for a different angle to the property tax, you know.
So I will have you thinkin, you know, it’s a double entendre, but you will be wonderin’, “Ah, she’s
going to sing about the property tax,” you know, “What . . .,” you know. And it’s basically, one of
the whatchamacall them, workers, government workers who came home to survey the property,
you know. But when he saw my garden, the size of my garden, the levy just rose.
HM: (Laughs and claps.)
SH: (Laughs.)
HM: But this is a topic that everybody’s interested in . . .
SH: Property tax, yes.
HM: . . . because it’s affecting them.
�8
SH: Yes.
HM: And that’s a challenge. Some of the other composers I’ve spoken to say it’s difficult
because that’s an open topic. That’s a topic everybody’s writing on and you know that there
gonna be other, probably other calypsos about property tax.
SH: Well, this is why you have to look for an angle.
HM: And a fresh angle.
SH: A fresh angle. Yeah, no, yes. Something that is different, you know. (Laughs.)
HM: It’s, well, that was a good example you just told me of a song. I was like, can you give me a
specific example of where you got the idea.
SH: Yeah, you know. Yeah, you know. It was going good all the time until he saw the size of
many things in the property, you know. The tax, the levy just kept going up. (Laughs.)
HM: Are you, in your writing, and kind of looking back on your writing, are you drawn to
particular, any particular themes, you know, that stand out, in your songs? That you go back to,
you know, time and again?
SH: That one, first calypso, understanding, you know? Because if we don’t understand each
other I don’t know where we think we going. You know, if I can’t understand you and you can’t
understand me, and then we can’t understand each other . . .
HM: So communication.
SH: That’s right.
HM: And interpersonal communication.
SH: As a matter of fact, that’s the first calypso that I won the first Queen with, 1998,
“Understanding.”
HM: Was that one.
SH: Yeah. Was that one, yeah. And my act to go, my prop with it were three persons
representative of the three political groups. So, if the PNM couldn’t understand the UNC, and
the UNC couldn’t understand the NAR, and everybody fightin’, and we were actually fightin’ and
crawling on stage and then they hug each other in the end of it. Yeah. (Laughs.)
HM: So, that’s something you go back to frequently . . .
SH: Mm-hm. Mm-hm.
HM: . . . As a theme. How has your music been influenced by your time in the U.S.?
SH: U.S. has been an eye-opener, as well as a blast, because what I learned more of was the
administrative side of the business. The business side.
�9
HM: The business part.
SH: The business part, you know.
HM: Music publishing.
SH: Because when we did our research and I studied that men like Michael Jackson, while we
as calypsonians have to produce every year, a brand new calypso, every year, every year,
every year. They would concentrate on producing an album and one of the songs on the album
they would concentrate and taken five years to market that one song. So, you see there’s a real,
a different . . .
HM: Different approach.
SH: . . . approach. And then they would market this one song in many various, innovative
schemes all about the place until they have gotten where they want the song to go, which
Billboard chart, how many million viewers, that kind of thing.
HM: And then they do that with another song on the same album.
SH: Yeah. And then they would market the song with the brands. The hats, the cups, the
everything.
HM: The commercials.
SH: The commercial side of it.
HM: The commercials with it, so . . .
SH: You know, so I said, “Unh-huh!” And then too the business side of it will also mean the
selling of you, your kit. Your bio must always be updated. You must have pictures. You must
apply the technology. And you must advance with the technology, you know, and those sorts of
things. And you must also be able in an interview to not be blundering, talk about yourself, and
be fluent, you know, so you musn’t have people looking at you wonderin’ you can’t remember
when you started singing. So, you’re in an interview, you know, kind of like (Sighs and shrugs.)
So, learning the business sec- of this whole artform is very important. We tell the young people
that all the time.
15:06
HM: How to be an artist. What’s required.
SH: Yes. And in America I got a lot of that . . .
HM: You learned about there.
SH: . . .you know. I worked with people at Sony Records, who took one of my calypsos and
actually did it in an R&B style.
�10
HM: They changed it to R&B?
SH: Yeah, yeah. It was amazing to me, you know, working with these guys. As well as
remembering the days I was just crossing over from vinyl records . . .
HM: To CD?
SH: . . . into CD. So every time I record up there I would go to a plant somewhere in
Pennsylvania and then they would do the mastering of it so I would be open to the whole . . .
HM: Process.
SH: . . . process.
HM: Beginning to end.
SH: From beginning to end. And then from the end now to take it out of your trunk to the record
shops.
HM: Then bring it back down here with you.
SH: Yeah.
HM: Did the music in the U.S. affect you at all in terms of your own music?
SH: No, not really.
HM: You were hearing that music anyway. Weren’t you?
SH: Yeah, yeah.
HM: You didn’t have to go to the U.S. to hear it. So, you could . . .
SH: No, no, no, no. So I was able, what was good for me was that whenever I was like featured
in a show, even if it was for just a half an hour, I would do calypso the majority but then I will
also do my R&B inside there, a little bit of the other pieces of music, African, whatever it is, so
the audience would always look forward to a versatile, you know.
HM: So you could get a wider . . .
SH: Something tasty.
HM: . . . view of you.
SH: Yes. Yes.
HM: Instead of just one category.
SH: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
HM: That you were versatile.
�11
SH: Yeah. Yeah.
HM: What instruments do you play?
SH: Just the drums.
HM: Just the drums, so when . . .
SH: Drums and African drums.
HM: So when you write, are you . . .
SH: It’s always like this (taps on table).
HM: You’re just singing and tapping?
SH: Yeah. Sing and tap, you know? Sing and tap.
HM: So, you have the melody and the words and the rhythm?
SH: Yeah. And that’s why, Leston Paul, one of our top arranger/producer, and then Kitchener,
they said, “She mad.” Because there I am, creating calypsos with melodic structures, not
knowing if those were the right chords or not and when I reach there they tell me “What vibes hit
you? Do you know that that is a nice chord?” and they were like “Play that, let me hear that
again,” and I’d be like, “(Sings.) Bah-ba-da-ba-da-ba-da-ba-da.”
HM: So, you would sing the chord to them? I mean . . .
SH: I would sing the whole melodic structure, the song, everything.
HM: So not just the melody.
SH: Yeah.
HM: But you would sing the part underneath, too? So, they would know?
SH: Well, yes, all those fellas . . .
HM: All of that.
SH: . . . and Pelham Goddard, usually would take, said “You have anything for the bass line?”
HM: So you would sit with this musician . . .
SH: Yeah.
HM: . . . and you would sing the parts and he would say . . .
SH: And they would be like . . .
�12
HM: Oh, you say, “That’s an A, that’s a,” they would figure it out.
SH: They would actually take it. They stopped telling me if it’s A, G, or what.
HM: They just said, “Okay, here it is,” and then they would play it.
SH: And funny enough, when we go to the studios, the younger generation don’t have that
formal training as the elder arrangers, so some of them have, some don’t. So, now you would
find when I go to the studios I would normally just sing what I came to record, and the guy would
be on the keyboard, and I would sing, if I’m singin’, (Sings.) “Nah-ba-nah-ba-nah,” (Sings and
taps.) “Nah-ba-nah-ba-nah,” (Speaks.) Until he get, and if he deviates, I can tell him.
HM: You can say.
SH: It’s funny, anyway. “Not that. Not that.”
HM: Change that.
SH: “Change that.” It’s so amazing. (Laughs.)
HM: Yeah. So, when you get into the studio, the musicians can tell by what you’re singing what
they need to play.
SH: Yeah. Yeah, once they have the melodic structure down, then we look for variations,
harmonies all that good stuff.
HM: And you can say, “I like this . . .
SH: And “I like this,” you know. Or we pick a piece from the middle and say, “Put that in the
introduction.”
HM: Okay, and then you can start moving it around. But you’ve got it all in your head, so you
can tell them what you’re hearing.
SH: Yeah, and then funny enough, sometimes only when I get to the studio, would I find a part
that never existed before.
HM: That you hadn’t even thought of before.
SH: But it would fit, ‘cause from the time they start to get the sound, the background music, the
bridge, what kind of rhythm would suit what I’m singing, and if the music we start to build, we
start to build the whole background thing? Then out of the blue . . .
HM: You’ll hear something?
SH: It always happen, it happened with “Garlic Sauce,” “body wine,” you know? “She love the
body wine”?
SH: (Taps and sings.) “Ah-ah-ah, take de body wine.”
SH: (Speaks.) All those things were created right in the . . .
�13
HM: In the studio while you were doing the arrangement . . .
SH: Yeah. Yeah.
HM: . . . on the spot.
SH: (Sings.) “Garlic sauce. All Rounder, he’s the boss, spread it.”
SH: (Speaks.) That was nowhere.
HM: Ah, you didn’t have that yet?
SH: No.
HM: Yeah. Well, that’s exciting. I bet it’s really exciting.
SH: Every year, look we back into the studio this time around and one of Daddy’s calypso’s
called “Whoop Whap.” You know, it’s a funny little one, like “Garlic Sauce” and the, well, we
created something like that. I’m like, “Okay, I’m hearing,” you know, “something else, Dad.”
HM: “I’m hearing something right there,” like this, and then you have musicians who can take
that and run with it.
19:59
SH: Oh yeah. Oh, yeah.
HM: They don’t need to say, “Well, that’s not on my paper here. I can’t play it,” you know.
SH: I think, too, some of them are happy that there is someone who could come up with
something, because sometimes they have to look to see what could . . .
HM: Sometimes they’re having to do that.
SH: Yeah. Enhance the music.
HM: Yeah, they’re having to figure out, “Well, we can take these eight bars and we could put
‘em over there,” but you’re going, “What if we do this. We could do this,” and they’re . . .
SH: It’s nice to work with guys. Yeah.
HM: . . . they’re liking your ideas, too, so. That’s really, that’s really good. So, when you start a
song, give me the process.
SH: Okay.
HM: So you have an idea and this idea could happen to you anytime of day or night.
�14
SH: Yeah.
HM: Then what happens?
SH: Sometimes you have, like, two lines? Yeah. And then you’re wonderin’, “That’s the chorus,
and that’s the verse. That’s soundin’ like the verse more than the chorus.” So, by the time now,
well, you know our traditional way of writing calypsos was that eight lines for the verse and eight
for the chorus. Now, with everything that is new, if you have sometimes four lines for a verse,
and sometimes sixteen lines for a chorus . . .
HM: It can change or vary.
SH: . . . and that can change, you know, a loop or something or something inside of there, you
know, so that by the time I’m finished with that and then I would sit and say “Shirl, write three
verses and write a fourth and a fifth because you could get encore with that. Don’t go back out
there, the crowd call you for, back for an encore and then you singing back the same first
verse.”
HM: You have to sing the same verse.
SH: No, no, no. Have something. And so I always try to have that at the side, as well as
sometimes we constructed two verses and then you have a bridge where you’re actually singing
a different melody altogether, but it’s working in.
HM: It’s not traditional at all, to have a bridge.
SH: No, no, you know, yeah. And now we have, what do you call, quarters and semi-quarters.
So, you a have a quarter, which is a bridge in the middle, and then coming down to the end,
after you finish the . . .
HM: A different one?
SH: . . . you have about four quarters, you know, where, you know, the crowd can sing along
and dance along. Because if you’re composing a semi-party tune, it’s a social commentary, you
can sing it in the tent, but when the DJ’s are playin’ it in the fete, you want the people to be able
to dance.
HM: To that. The bar playing that.
SH: If you just record, three verses and three choruses, with just a little end . . .
HM: They don’t have time to do that.
SH: . . . they have to go back now and, but you have to have something that they can go on . . .
HM: So, you leave room for that.
SH: Mm-hm, mm-hm. Or they might just take one of your hooks. One of your things that you
found like out of the blues and mix that in in the tag.
HM: So, the DJ’s are doing remixes with this.
�15
SH: All the time, all the time. And that’s why sometimes, as opposed to long time, or a DJ on air,
a radio DJ who would be more familiar with calypso music, they would allow the whole music to
play. Nowadays radio DJ’s spin mih two verses into you into a next person, so you don’t get all
of your calypso. You know you hear a little piece and you say, “Thank God,” you know? (Hits
table.)
HM: That even got on there. So, it’s not the whole thing.
SH: No, no, no, no.
HM: But go back. Let’s say you got this idea. You’ve decided that, you know, this is the verse,
this is the chorus.
SH. Yeah, yeah.
HM: So, how long does this process take? Do you, does it take several days? Does it . . .
SH: No, no, no, no. Not really. Sometimes I write it one time.
HM: Fast? For you . . .
SH: Fast.
HM: . . . a lot of times?
SH: And then sometimes I might think of something. I come back and I change. And I put it in
here. You know.
HM: So you might change it. Go away from it for a little while. Come back and change it.
SH: Yeah, yeah. Come back, Change it accordingly. Or just add to it. You know, I say, “No that,
take that line out, put that in. That might sound a little better,” you know.
HM: So you refine, so in between the time that you write the song and the time you go into the
studio with it, you’ll make changes to it.
SH: Yeah. If need be. And sometimes, too, it all depends on the topic. Like I say if it’s property
tax, I will do some research.
HM: Ah, okay, you’ll look, you’ll do some . . .
SH: What is property tax? So I will take all the basic information about property tax, you know,
from the time the person comes in, you know, you do a survey, what documents are needed for
you to have to hand, a levy, what’s a levy, what kind of tax it is, you know.
HM: Because you might use some of that in your song.
SH: And, that’s exactly what’s going on. So, you know what? You really, “She’s really talking
about property tax,” but at the same time . . .
�16
HM: She knows about it.
SH: She’s talking about something else.
HM: Yeah, yeah. So, you do some research.
SH: Yeah, yeah.
HM: And, but you tend to write pretty quickly.
SH: Yeah.
HM: So, if you’re thinking of a new song. Let’s say you get an idea for a song today . . .
SH: Mm-hm.
HM: . . . that you like, does it stay on your mind?
SH: (A few missing words) what I try to do is get the melodic structure.
HM: So, go ahead and get the melodic structure.
SH: They go together you know. I don’t write the lyrics separate and, no, no, no, everything
goes . . .
HM: Does it all happen at the same time?
SH: Yeah.
HM: So, you don’t get some of the words and then go ahead and finish all the melody, and then
come back and fill in the words. It’s like you’re, they’re together.
25:04
SH: No, they are there together, you know, and sometimes while even with the words I will
reconstruct the melodic structure just to suit sometimes . . .
HM: So that, so while you’re getting the words that could change the melody some, too, but it’s
hand-in-hand, it’s going on at the same time. Does it . . .
SH: I prefer that because sometimes I would feel a little bit, you know, sorry for folks who, they
can write, but they don’t write melodic structures, so they write words.
HM: They finish all the words.
SH: And then they look for somebody, “Could you put a melody to that?” So, from that, I said,
“No, Shirl. Construct a melody,” you know, and with the words.
HM: At the same time.
�17
SH: At the same time. So when you’re going . . .
HM: They’re really connected then.
SH: Yeah.
HM: Do you kinda get obsessed with a song, so that if it’s in the process, you’re thinking about it
all the time until you’re finished with it? Does it, or can you just kind of put it down and walk
away from it?
SH: Yeah. Sometimes I put it down and walk away. And then you will see me walking up the
corridor.
HM: (Laughs.)
SH: (Imitates a person talking to herself.) “Was that something there yet? Was that? Oh, yeah.
Right. Uh-huh!” And then I gone again, you know.
HM: So, it stays on your mind.
SH: It stays. It stays. Most time it stays.
HM: Until you’re done.
SH: It’s a funny thing. To have all these different melodies in your mind. That’s crazy.
HM: And sometimes people can look at you and say . . .
SH: “No, she’s. Yeah, no, she’s, she’s, she’s mad,” you know?
HM: (Laughs.) “I’m talking to you. Can you hear me?”
SH: Yeah, yeah. No. Yeah: “Are you hearing me?” I’m like, “Yeah, I’m hearing you.” Yeah.
HM: “Just a minute. I need to write something down.”
SH: Yeah, you know.
HM: Well, that’s another question. Are you, are you writing things down? Or do you kind of keep
it all in your head?
SH: No, everything is written down.
HM: You write it down.
SH: All the sounds. I recently found a book from in New York what I had with calypsos and
sounds I’d written a lot. Yeah.
HM: But while you’re working on it are you writing it down? Before it’s complete. Are you writing
it down?
�18
SH: No, you, I write down.
HM: While you’re writing.
SH: And even more so now, I told myself, “Shirlane, you are older now . . . ‘
HM: You don’t want to forget.
SH: . . . don’t trust your memory.” Daddy would always tell us, “Don’t trust your memory,” so I
write down. And I look at it, look at it, “Oh-ho! This was that song with that melody.”
HM: You could remember when you were reading it? Could you remember the melody when
you were looking at the words?
SH: Yeah.
HM: That’s good. Does being, because not every composer is also a performer . . .
SH: Yeah.
HM: . . . but you’re both. Does being a performer influence your writing?
SH: Oh, yeah.
HM: So how does it, how does that work?
SH: Yeah, because it’s like, you go out there, okay? You can write, you know that. You can
even come up with the melody, but then, “God, I don’t know if I could perform that, nuh?” So,
you start to study, “That song is in like a Sparrow something that he would,” or, “That song in
like a Shadow, Shadow would sing this good,” so I have been fortunate again to be like a chip
off my dad because he don’t want to be singing anything that is up there, but when he done
perform it? So, I have kind of like had that performance thing within me, you know? I’m really
like the stage person in the family.
HM: You are.
SH: Because I studied theatre, theatre arts, introduction of theatre, and when I for small,
growing up, whenever Daddy had some of his calypsos, like I played football, I was a person
who was a footballer.
HM: Ah, you were into sports.
SH: I was a vagrant on stage when he sang about vagrancy.
HM: (Laughs.) Oh, you played the part. You were like the acting, acting it out.
SH: Yes. I was the prostitute on stage with him when he sang about Jimmy Swaggart, “Innocent
Jimmy,” you know. I was, that got us into a lot of trouble, but it made the song bigger, you know.
I was like many things over the years. I was Wonder’s granny, when she sang “Granny’s
Prediction,” which I wrote, one of my early calypsos for her. So, I just transform into Granny, in a
�19
rocking chair, from being on stage with two plaits. It’s so funny, so it’s always that theatre part of
me.
HM: So, you’re thinking of that when you’re writing, so you’re, while you’re writing . . .
SH: Yeah. So, while you’re writing . . .
HM: . . . you’re thinking about that?
SH: Yeah. So, okay, like “Property Tax,” you know, well, you can’t bring a house on stage, but
at least . . .
HM: How would I do that?
SH: Yes, but at least if, let us say, that is the song that you might use when the judges come,
you would have, of course, a drawing of a building somewhere there. You know, and you will
have, you must have a man on stage there with you somehow.
HM: He’s the appraiser, or whatever.
SH: Yeah, you know and the levy would be rising, you know, because you’ve seen the
percentage going up.
HM: So, you’re visualizing when you’re writing. You’re, before the song is even finished, you’re
thinking about how it would look on stage.
SH: Yeah. Yeah.
HM: And go back, because I want to make sure I understood that you referred to your dad . . .
SH: Mm-hm.
HM: . . . that he didn’t want, he would never sing a song that, or he would, say, I didn’t quite
understand that, so what you were saying in, you were saying you were like him in that way, in
that the song . . .
30:00
SH: In his performance, he’s very theatric, you know, so that he would onstage, he would
become whatever the song is.
HM: So, he had to become the part of the song. He couldn’t just stand on the stage and sing it.
SH: Right. No, he’s not gonna stand like you know . . .
HM: Just a stick.
SH: . . . rah-ba-dah-ba-dah. You’re wonderin’, “What is going on with that man?” you know.
�20
HM: So, you’re . . .
SH: He would make you the only, he would have the audience looking at him.
HM: So, he’s acting it out.
SH: Yes.
HM: I saw him on stage, at City Hall’s the first time I saw him, so I could see . . .
SH: Yeah.
HM: . . . he really gets into a theatrical . . .
SH: Yeah.
HM: . . . presentation of it.
SH: Yeah. And lot of the calypsonians can do that very well and some of them, you know, you
would rather buy their record, yeah, and say, “Okay, you, thank you very much I’ll purchase the
CD.”
HM: Yeah. It’s the song. It’s the song.
SH: It’s the song.
HM: And the performance.
SH: But the performance, you know?
HM: You can’t just stand and sing it.
SH: You’re like, “Ooh, boy. Wonderful voice, but . . . “
HM: And a really good song, but . . .
SH: Yeah, I’m like, I’m like. . .
HM: The dramatic part’s . . .
SH: Yeah, yeah.
HM: And when I saw you at the Shadow tribute was the first time I’d seen you perform and that
was a very strong part of what you did . . .
SH: Yeah.
HM: . . . and it struck me because I saw a number of people on stage that night so you saw
different kinds of presentations . . .
SH: Yes.
�21
HM: But you had a very strong dramatic angle to what you did that I thought was really effective.
So, you’re still writing regularly.
SH: Oh, yeah, yeah. Well, we’re into the studio right now again for 2018, you know, so.
HM: That’s great. Is that, when would that, when do you hope for that to be out? By Carnival
season?
SH: By December.
HM: I mean like everybody.
SH: Because it’s shorter, you know.
HM: Seems like it’s just a month . . .
SH: Closer. It’s a month, but it’s closer.
HM: Everything is kind of . . .
SH: So, you know how everything is going to be like.
HM: Boom, boom, boom. (Laughs.)
SH: And now actually the nights in the tent have been reduced because of the whole financial
challenges. Long time tent would start Boxing Day.
HM: Right after Christmas.
SH: Yeah. Now we can’t do that anymore.
HM: So, it’s, now you have to wait to start.
SH: So now, most of the time it’s like Thursday, Friday, Saturday, possibly on a Sunday of each
week, and right now it’s cut down to three weeks into Carnival.
HM: Three weeks.
SH: Normally, it would be a month, but again, you know, pray and help us if we get a
subvention.
HM: So really, that’s kinda helpful actually that Carnival season isn’t long this year.
SH: And then, too, remember we would have all of these inclusive fetes and parties. People
have other options. You know, so we have to always to make it attractive. That they would come
to the tent. Not feel bored. It would start on time. Eight o’clock. And it would end before twelve
o’clock so that persons can afford to, even if they have to go to a fete or party . . .
HM: After that.
�22
SH: . . . whatever, they can go.
HM: They can get to that. So, you have to kind of take into account the other things that are
going on. But at the same time like you’re saying making sure that they’re getting a good value
for the time that they spent there.
SH: And make sure, too that your program is productive and innovative. That your program has
a brand. Because if you have to do a video for your program you have to study who would want
to buy that and see it. So, it must be tasty.
HM: And how would it be different.
SH: Yeah.
HM: That makes it different than what everybody else is doing.
SH: Than everybody else is. Yeah. Yeah.
HM: So, there’s a marketing . . .
SH: Mm-hm.
HM: . . . aspect to it.
SH: You must have a proper marketing plan.
HM: To all of that.
SH: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
HM: Well those are the questions I have, but is there anything that you would like to add about
writing and about you as a writer that we haven’t talked about?
SH: I think what I had suggested to TUCO years ago so that we need to really implement it is
that we should look into our membership and get a pool of writers, so that instead of you having
the same three or four persons whose songs get to the finals written by the same people, give
the others an opportunity to write. We have writers. Sometimes we have young talented writers,
but sometimes they just stare, they need encouragement.
HM: They need encouragement and support . . .
SH: Yeah. Yeah.
HM: . . . and you could, that could be kind of an organized approach . . .
SH: Yeah.
HM: . . . to supporting the composers, encouraging them to write.
SH: As well as during the year, have workshops just on writing, writing calypsos. Encourage
persons, you know. Get newspaper articles, things that are, you know, and study writers in the
�23
past, like Attila the Hun. He was a politician, you know. Executor and they. Those people would
just write. And sometimes the extempo. That is the other area I want to start venturing into,
extempo, you know? Because then to extempo properly you must be a reader, a good reader.
Read every topic across local, regional, international, so that if you pick something from a
basket . . .
HM: You’re ready to do it because . . .
SH: You’re not thinking, “What in the world?” And you’re looking up in space and . . .
HM: “What is this? I’ve never heard of this about Seabridge.”
SH: Ah-hah. Seabridge! (Laughs.) Seabridge. What is Seabridge?
HM: Yeah, you have to be ready if it’s a current topic.
35:00
SH: You have to be, and rhyme, rhyme, rhyme. You know, because of the sans humanite’. And
you know, you see now they’re driftin’ off into “Rum and Coca Cola.”
HM: Doing different melodies.
SH: Oh, Myron B. loves the “Rum and Coca” thing. And you see, too, it helps with the
commercialization of extempo ‘cause people then will look forward to, you know, these new . . .
HM: Different melodies. The melodies could change.
SH: Yeah. Yeah. That is so cool.
HM: It was really, I thought it was entertaining.
SH: Yeah. And now you see the young people have taken it up. Kevon Calliste is Stalin’s
grandson, you know.
HM: He was good.
SH: He was good. He was good. They were good. And it’s nice to see them brave, being brave,
you know.
HM: Taking risks.
SH: And then the extempo warpath, you know, that’s when you sing on me and I sing on you,
and you know.
HM: Like the old-fashioned picong.
SH: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
�24
HM: It was really good. But anything else about you as a writer that you want to share?
SH: Just to continue on this path so that because you know that every day is a learning process,
you know, you can’t get too diva-ish, where you think you know . . .
HM: Know it all.
SH: No. You don’t, you know, so that learn and apply new technologies, musical technologies,
you know, to the music, and I always say I still want to do like a formal course in music, you
know, so sometime down the road when I get a little chance, maybe I go to UTT, you know, and
get . . .
HM: You could learn more . . .
SH: May, could learn more.
HM: . . . the theory.
SH: That’s why I was so attracted with, when your program, you know, so I’m hoping, would you
be coming back again to continue the program? Or is it going to be . . .
HM: I’m going to just be working with a couple of people directly . . .
SH: Okay.
HM: . . . when I come back. There are a couple of students at UTT that I would be sort of like a
coach. So, not a class for credit. But I’m gonna be just getting together with people.
SH: Well, don’t worry. We, you know, I really would, you know, whatever I can say or do to
make it happen because we need it. We have to stop taking ourselves for granted, that we know
this and we know that, and I mean because we have to, you know empathize with our elders in
the past, you know. Because of lack of certain things they were not privy, you know.
HM: They didn’t have the opportunity.
SH: And that is why I admire their talent so much. They have raw talent. That’s raw talent.
HM: Just developed it totally on their own.
SH: That’s like the pan man and pan woman who have not had the . . .
HM: Formal education.
SH: . . . the formal education and they can just pick up a piece of music.
HM: That’s really like you’re saying, raw talent.
SH: No, no, that’s raw talent. That’s amazing to me, you know? So, that’s what. (Laughs.)
HM: Well, great. Thank you!
�25
SH: You’re welcome.
End of interview
�
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
J. Hunter Moore
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Shirlane Hendrickson
Location
The location of the interview
Queens Park West, Port of Spain, Trinidad and Tobago
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
37:40
Time Summary
A summary of an interview given for different time stamps throughout the interview
Subject sings: :24, 19:20, 19:29
------------------------------
Note about interview: At 4:45 the recording was stopped, the volume adjusted, and the recording was started again
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Shirlane Hendrickson interview
Description
An account of the resource
Date of birth: October 29, 1961
Place of birth: Trou Macaque, Laventille, Trinidad and Tobago
Lived abroad: splits time between U.S. and T&T, naturalized U.S. citizen
Awards (as of March 2018): four times Calypso Queen, 1998-2001
Best songs/best-known songs: “Understanding,” “Teach the Youth,” “Casava”
----------------------------
Individuals heard during the interview:
SH: Shirlane Hendrickson
HM: Hunter Moore
----------------------------
Trinidad and Tobago terms and expressions used in the interview:
Extempo: a form of calypso in which two singers take turns insulting each other via extemporized verse set to an established melody, known traditionally as picong or “war”
Kaiso: calypso, a “kaiso kaiso” is a true calypso
Mih: my
Nuh: you know
Pan: steel band music. Refers to both the individual musical instruments and the music as a genre
Sans humanite’: a traditional calypso melodic refrain, often used for extempo lyrics
Soca: short for “soul calypso.” An up-tempo, dance-oriented style of music originating in Trinidad and Tobago. Soca lyrics generally relate to celebration, particularly Carnival. Soca is currently the most popular form of music in Trinidad and Tobago
TUCO: Trinbago Unified Calypsonians’ Organisation, promotes calypso and calypsonians
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-11-06
-
https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/40461/archive/files/a71fed48b326e50ad073b24935c836f6.jpg?Expires=1712793600&Signature=EvGX%7EwrEMNcCzMBllz%7EUQEPPAs5ob0RDnyWhfrqoUT8A4P8gutMcYMR4X0JRLwxWf6UoV-WNf-V-0p7-FZ1x-uF2Mj1UKtMqOQ1gEH3CTxLjqOiS48U7IGKyOYce3olqWuj5f6VlESSoMV7vYT7jR3cCS-J0j27zQCv4hKTX7rlfUOpWAUEuJKb47lqSNMbAa%7EBCypwcDrTQrVdsZPZUFR8Nk3S5xcmBoNqZ7ZRzeh7hP2gSplUSCmyEY-G-5yGwLsGUN%7Exo0wyklbRki6whXghZfJWZYxtI-sS90luXMoHQOhM6j811t9IoPYIZqEfzgxt-anmY6zjSiNjbyKiReA__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM
96d72b17b3b2e41965e818720ac434aa
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Short Pants MacIntosh
https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/40461/archive/files/63fee9f5dc55b3bedd52901c01a37737.mp3?Expires=1712793600&Signature=gQ%7EEmv%7EUyfptv47pE1E0NlsfKgJwp%7EMiv029VwreLSNMQSSsd3izTQ%7EbiZcTlM-H1jXE-quqihl69oaUnfZRczi-lAESXkZb1Y5x3SMIqEInChElARuiE-7VKYZcW3HHl%7EucxBlJdbEpRS2Bfy7JTzzTkkxehXdqx4FsYflwOY05zB1uMzFTXDgy3gPZyj%7E4ygl3oAPM9yKjlQbZw6UmvxZl5S74r5W2iFqzNTfYl-qdHeD5HgAq0zyxdFnDGvsLkUd-rfk9SWb%7E7sWbX5AsA00QlbW0LESVZDOc6IVjzYhLmFYNYXvBXd9%7ENAqgYhcE2Lb9jv8ovFTB7JBi2MzO3w__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM
00e4e8933fa674e494c95f18fbd13549
https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/40461/archive/files/c86408f8200f60be280cef793bd5ae07.pdf?Expires=1712793600&Signature=LJhRKHui7haf3tgpdCfHdnQDlT97f4bF7jEsRKvZjmsmIhmfUxicU16ZNRODS1wnxw9yxAlVJeWAsH3M9EPk8Ak0vAY8V4b6tvkKjFY5LE2TH60dMVHmZhrD1vKciXTOm5iefq7M7kFXvMIU5CtzV4gzi6RQ3ABNant%7EoZ-o9A3oOcAB6MDRVEJGQ7jRnjYlpeEA-l70yT9nSKjqfE3UvF1fVYLGN5HdnVnPV-XgFzJPN7z8OGG7qSXQx-Hv83uGP%7E7262aaESeNeU036U1HgEy1zpJnvJHxNKhmk4Ps%7EGL9LI7UA3Rh3Q80ufir9ICti7wbQ27KoWx8D10dAgkgOg__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM
8f7f2b528069f333621ae06beeb22eea
PDF Text
Text
Interview subject: Short Pants
Interviewer: J. Hunter Moore
Date: September 30, 2017
Location: radio station studio on Maraval Road, Port of Spain, Trinidad and Tobago, following
Short Pants’s weekly calypso program
Actual name: Llewellyn Mac Intosh
Date of birth: July 4, 1948
Place of birth: Pointe-a-Pierre, Trinidad and Tobago
Awards (as of March 2018): National Extempo finalist (multiple years), Most Humorous Calypso,
2009 (for “De Infidel”)
Best songs/best-known songs: “The Law is an Ass,” “De Infidel”
________________________
Individuals heard during the interview:
SP: Short Pants
HM: Hunter Moore
-----------------------------------------Trinidad and Tobago terms and expressions as used in the transcript:
Knock on: to improvise on a musical instrument
Nuh: you know
Yuh: you’re
-------------------------------------------Interview:
HM: This is September 30th. I’m sitting with Llewelyn Short Pants Mac Intosh. And just how did,
tell me, you were just telling me how you got the name Short Pants, so if you could just explain
that to me again.
SP: Well, you know styles of dress, modes of dress change tremendously over the years, but
when I went to, well in Trinidad and Tobago we call it college, but college in Trinidad and
Tobago, the students are age eleven to nineteen. That’s college, that's before you go to
university, which is what you call college, right? So, when I was at school youngsters wore short
pants that was, that’s how we dressed generally. In fact, even up to recently the policemen, part
of the uniform would be short pants, and they wore what was called puttees, military, there’s a
�2
kind of, like a stocking that they would wrap around. So I wore short pants until I got to the latter
years of secondary school, age fifteen, sixteen. So short pants was not uncommon. Of course,
the years changed dramatically after that, because my eldest son, when he started secondary
school at age eleven, he started in long pants. But I didn't, I started in short pants which I,
generally you spent seven years in what we call secondary school, right, so up to my fifth year I
was still wearing short pants. We had two uniforms. We had what was called the dress uniform
you’d use for formal occasions, the first day of the term, well, you say semester, but we had
three terms in the year. So, the first day or there might be a special occasion where you’d be
told, “Wear your dress uniform.” So, I got my dress pants as a long pants first, but I didn’t get,
you know, I didn’t get the everyday long pants until maybe my sixth year. So, because I wore
short pants and I might have been looking for a rhyme at some point in time in, because I
actually started to compose calypsos while at school. So I simply called myself Short Pants, you
know.
HM: Well, that was my next question, when did you write, start writing calypso, so you started in
school.
SP: I started in school. I remember writing the first one, might have been in my fourth year in
school and really it was an extension of poetry writing. At one time I liked history a great deal,
and I, in my younger years I would have told you that history was my favorite subject. But after
two or three years of secondary school I got to like literature a great deal. When I say literature,
English literature. So, I liked, you know, Shakespeare and Dickens and the poetry. We did, well,
if you remember that Trinidad was a British colony, we only got Independence in 1962. I would
have started secondary school around, what, ‘61, but it took some time for school curricula to
change. So we did a lot of English poetry and so on and I got to love the poetry. I got to love the
literature and at school we had a literary and dramatic society or a literary and debating
society. I can't remember which it was called, but I got myself involved in both and while the
teacher or there might have been a teacher as the person in charge, the supervisor, largely it
was the senior students who managed it. And they would have publications and from time to
time they would walk around to the classes and ask if anybody had any articles they wanted to
put. You had a poem, you had a story, you had a joke. And it was great fun if I can put it loosely,
to have your work published within the school. I think the, you couldn't even really call it a
magazine, a kind of journal, four, five pages stapled together, sold for a few cents, but you
would be glad to buy it because there was your work in print and I had a couple of the poems I
wrote that was published like that. But annually the school would have a magazine and that was
more formal and I did have a couple poems published in the magazine. And then as would
happen with young men, you know, there’d be young love, there would be the young ladies
around, whether where you lived or the schools near to you that you felt that you were in love
with and so on and, again taken from the poetry you were reading, there was love poetry, so
you know, you would write verse to these girls, you know.
5:33
HM: So, this was poetry, but would you consider it calypso? I mean at that point? Or was it just
poetry?
SP: Well, I started writing, I was writing poetry and following what, you know, what the teachers
would have taught. I mean, you did learn a little bit about what were feet and what was meter.
And you know, you learned that and, well, coupled with that there were other things happening.
�3
So at the national level there was a lady who was very popular. She was called Auntie Kay. She
hosted a radio program for youngsters. She did it for several years. And it was hosted at, in fact,
very close to here. There is a building near to here that was called Radio Trinidad at the time
and she hosted the program there. And on Sundays youngsters would go and there would be a
quick audition before the show and then she’d select five or six finalists and you would perform.
And it was sponsored by one of the businessmen, I think a biscuit company eventually, although
it may not have been the first sponsor. And you know, the children would sing or recite or
whatever and you would have winners by the end of the show and they would get prizes. And it
became popular and it became a place for youngsters to go on Sunday afternoons as a bit of
recreation. And she decided one year why not have a calypso competition for the youngsters.
And at home, you know, as I am quite certain it happened in most homes, one listened to this
competition. And I listened to it and I heard it and I thought that I would compete. And I wrote a
calypso to compete and sang it for my colleagues in class and they liked it, and you know, but . .
.
HM: So, in that case it had, you had a melody as well as words?
SP: Well, what I did, my initial melody was, I used, well, I mean now I am old enough and I look
back I can see that I stole, plagiarized a melody from a folk song. There was a folk song melody
at least part of it. I think the chorus. The chorus was a folk song melody. I don’t think the verse, I
don’t think it was, but the chorus was definitely a copying of a folk melody. And the guys in my
class they were all enthused, and they thought I would do well. The song was about football.
Football was very, well, you call it soccer in the States, football.
HM: Sure. It makes more sense to call it football.
SP: (Laughs.) College, college football is very popular.
(Microphone is repositioned.)
SP: Up to now in Trinidad it’s probably even more popular than the big leagues in which adults
participate. If you went to a college game you’d be surprised to see how huge crowds are. And
there was intense rivalry between the colleges. And there was a particular game, and the
college I attended, we lost and it was heartbreaking. So that’s . . .
HM: That was the subject?
SP: That was the subject of the calypso.
HM: But you were, were you, as a child at that time, so how old were you at that time, would you
say?
SP: I’d of been sixteen, seventeen.
HM: So were you listening to popular calypso on the radio during Carnival season or anything,
like . . .
9:44
�4
SP: Yeah. Calypso was, I might even say, more popular on radio then than it is now. You know
that's one of the things. The other thing, too, is that we had very few radio stations at the time.
Maybe one or two. There would have been a third one. The third one would have been one that
the armed forces had. There was a military base here and there was an armed forces radio
station. But local radio stations, we had either one or two, so it meant that if you said you were
listening to radio, you were listening to one of the local ones and if there was only one, you
know, you went to it, whatever they aired. And especially during the calypso season, they would
play the calypsos. And my mother, who is what you will now describe as a housewife, meaning
she worked at home looking after the children, there was seven of us, she would be singing
them regularly. It was also the golden age of Sparrow. Sparrow was very popular. And he would
release, what, he put out an album every year. So, it means that every year there were ten new
calypsos that Sparrow sang. As a rival he had Lord Melody and there were a couple others and
the calypsos were aired, they were quite popular. People sang them. I heard my mother singing
calypso so I grew up . . .
HM: You grew up listening to it. That’s how you learned, . . .
SP: Yeah, right.
HM: . . . was hearing it on the radio.
SP: You know, you hear it on the radio, but, you know, there was mummy . . .
HM: And your mom sings, too.
SP: . . . over the tub, you know, washing clothes over the tub, and she’d be singing. And not
only that, you talked about it at school. I mean, that was in the era in which I grew up, 1950’s,
1960’s. It was the popular music. And we talked about it as youngsters, you know.
HM: Well, and you said you primarily write words, you know, so as you went along writing you
discerned that your gift was primarily with the lyrics and did you find people to work with,
musicians to work with?
SP: Yes, for a little while I’ve got a distant cousin who was an extremely good musician. I
remember him visiting my home as a youngster and I was amazed that, my sister would
sometimes had, or she did have at one time, a baby piano as a gift that she would have gotten
for Christmas or something. And, I mean, you know, she got it as a gift and it’s there and you
knock on it. And you were talking just now about notation, numerical notation. You might get
with the piano a little card and it had numbers and the notes had numbers and you could knock
out a tune. But after Christmas is over on the sixth of January, you know, you hardly bother, but
this cousin would come home and he would take the piano up and he would do what I found
was amazing things. Because he was trained formally as a musician and he could play. And we
always kept in touch, so when I got to the stage where I was taking calypso-writing seriously
enough, I would, as I’d begin composing, I would pay him a visit and say what’s in my head, and
what I am thinking and maybe I might have a fragment of a melody if you could call it that. And
he would improvise something and I would say, “Well, no, that doesn't sound right.” And I'm
sure I spent seven, eight, nine years doing that, meaning visiting him annually, sitting in
his drawing room, you know, we will drink something, and, well, he was good both on the guitar
and the piano, but even though I knew him as a pianist, and he’s quite a good pianist, he would
take the guitar most times. He would play, he would show me a few chords. Over the years I
told myself I would learn to play this thing. Initially, I made a cuatro, right?
�5
HM: Four strings.
SP: I learnt it, I made it at school. I mean you did those things at school long ago. I marvel at
what they do at school now, but I made a cuatro at school, go to the woodwork room every
lunchtime and you built it. And I tried to learn to play it. And didn’t get very far. But eventually I
bought a guitar and there was one particular session that did very well for me. There was an old
guitarist who tutored guitar. And there was a session that ran maybe about nine months and it
would be every Saturday for two or three hours for nine months. And I learned some barre
chords and I learned a couple things and that really became the, well, virtually all the music I
did, you know.
HM: Was using the guitar?
15:32
SP: Using the guitar and going to my friend, and he would have shown me an additional chord
or two, because he might play something and it’s, that's not within the range that I knew, so he
might, you know, show me and I would sit with him and learn and then I would go home and sit
with the cassette and . . .
HM: Learn that.
SP: And learn that.
HM: Was everything that you were writing, did you consider calypso, or were you writing other
kinds of music as well?
SP: No, I only did calypso. I mean, there were once or twice I did other things that I might have
wanted to call songs. Like I remember once the, we’ve got an organization called the Field
Naturalist Club. Somehow, I met them and they were having a big anniversary, might have been
their 100th year or something and they wanted a song for that and they asked me and I wrote a
song. But I don’t know if one sat down, I don’t know, I am not sure now where you would make
the distinction between what is song and what is calypso, I mean given what I write. You know?
HM: And that, I want to follow that by saying, how do you know when it's calypso, so you know,
what makes it calypso? What’s your, I, every-, you know, there might be a hundred definitions,
but what is you’re, when you’re saying, “I’m writing calypso. I’m not writing something else. I
know it's calypso because . . .
SP: Yeah. I'm starting off by saying that’s a difficult one, right? But you know if I were to attempt
a definition. I mean there are things about the calypso, well, those that I write anyway. It has
four stanzas, right? Currently, I mean calypso has evolved. So I’m talking about what I do now
or what I have been doing, right? So, you’ve got four stanzas. You can separate what you’d call
the verse or the stanza from the chorus of it. There is a chorus. The theme even though I can
say and I say it all the time particularly when I do my Sunday shows, calypsos have been written
about virtually everything. But it tends to be commentary, right? It tends to be social
commentary. The better ones to my mind, in addition to being very profound commentary or
some might be in fact be philosophical. Because, too, of the kind of history we’ve had, lots of
�6
them the writers make use of what is called the double entendre. So, what you hear is subject to
a variety of interpretation and there are historical reasons for that. Because at one time the
calypsonian was under severe pressure. You could be, you could find yourself in jail for saying
the wrong things. But you found a way to cleverly construct your lines so that your words could
have varying interpretations and therefore they couldn't pin you down in a court of law by
saying, “This is what you mean,” because you can always say, “No, this is what I mean.”
HM: I was just singing about milk. That was all I was singing about. You know? (Laughs.)
SP: (Laughs.) Right, so there is that, and, well, you know, the origin of the thing is in Trinidad.
You sing it in a calypso tent setting. All these things help to make it a calypso. But I don't think
that my ability to compose calypsos prevents me from composing other kinds of music. I just
haven't done, haven’t done that, or haven't done it very often. There might have been one or
two occasions that somebody might have asked me to do something. But I wouldn’t get upset if
somebody were to look at it and say, “But, yeah, yeah, it’s a song, yes, but it's quite calypsonic,
right.
20:24
HM: If you’re, if it’s, if you’re writing calypso are you influenced by other kinds of music when
you write the calypso, things outside of calypso itself, are you influenced by other music that you
hear or other types of songs that you hear?
SP: If that is so, well, let me start by saying I'm not sure yet, but let me say if that did happen, if
there were influences, for me, because my strong point has really been the lyrics, the influence
would be the theme, the messages, right? Lyrical construction and things like that, more than it
would be the music, right? I have written things where there might have been, I might have
mirrored something or there might have been a phrase that might have come from something
that came from elsewhere, but I think it's largely from me. It’s, the words have been my thing
HM: Where do your, where do you find your ideas? Do they just, are you aware of your ideas
coming from a certain experience, a certain relationship, a certain event? Where do they come
from for you?
SP: Yeah, well let me, maybe I should say a little bit more of my development to answer that,
right? I had my first three or four years, if I look at that. I went to University here in Trinidad. And
I am not sure now what prompted it, but you know maybe I challenged that initially. I wrote
calypsos initially, after writing, well I didn’t complete that story. I should. Let me do it this way, if
you don’t mind. That very first calypso I wrote that I was going to sing, I didn’t complete that.
What happened was the part of the story that I didn't give is the very strict father that I had. He
was a policeman. He was very strict. I didn't think that he would let me go on the radio to sing. I
didn't think so. I never asked. I was too fearful to ask, right? I, in school of course I told the boys
I would sing and so on and so on. But I knew very well, so on Monday they all wanted to find out
what happened and I can't remember what story I gave them, but it was because I, you know.
So that calypso died, right? Eventually, I had a younger sister. Like I said there were seven of
us, so my youngest sister, she would be easily twelve, fourteen years younger than I am. She
started going to school and by that time calypso competitions in schools had become popular
and she wanted to enter. And I wrote a calypso for her. I don't think she was very successful
with it. I had, I have a brother who was after that youngest sister, the very last of my mother's
�7
children. He also started going to school. And there was a competition in his school and I wrote
for him. It was a humorous calypso I wrote for him. You know, he came and he said they had
this and given that I felt I had some skill, I thought I would write it for him and what I did was, I
wrote a calypso arguing, I mean quite flippantly, but now when I think about it’s, I’d probably say
the same thing now forty years after, that politicians are not doing a good job of managing the
country. What we should do is to put sportsmen to do it, because sportsmen really seem to be
doing well. And I showed how in the calypso, you know, because at that time Mr. Universe in
one of the divisions was a Trinidadian. So, I would argue for example that he could be Defense
Force because he was strong and he could. And my brother chickened out. He didn’t enter the
competition. That same year, I was at University. And there was a competition at the University,
but you had to sing two calypsos. So, I had to find a second song. And I felt strongly about
capital punishment and I wrote a calypso about capital punishment. And I sang the two and won
the competition.
HM: So that, so those were both inspired by . . .
SP: Events.
HM: . . . your observations of local events, . . .
SP: Right.
HM: . . . the politics and . . .
SP: And I don’t think, largely that hasn’t changed much. That hasn’t . . .
HM: That would be . . .
SP: . . . that has been my focus.
HM: . . . your chief source of inspiration.
SP: Yes, right.
HM: So, I was going to say are you drawn to particular themes. So they would they be social
and political?
SP: Yes.
HM: That would be the best way to say . . .
SP: Largely, largely. Yes, yes.
HM: How are you influenced by the community, so you’re, these are, you’re being influenced by
events, but what about the local community? Are you, do you feel like you’re a spokesperson for
the community?
SP: Well . . .
HM: Or, you know when you express these things or . . .
�8
SP: In this way, you know. If you are a calypsonian as I have been, and after a time, because
of, you know, because of performing and so on, you become well-known, your images appear in
the newspaper or television. People would see you and say to you, “Why don't you sing on . . .
?“ “Eh, sing on . . .,” “You know what you should do? You should sing a calypso . . .,” and
sometimes, sometimes an idea sticks.
HM: Will come that way.
SP: Yeah. I could give you a good example. If I jump forward to say eventually, I had a
daughter who has become, I mean I would think and other people will tell you, quite a good
calypsonian. In fact, at one time, and this is very interesting, at one time people would meet me
and say, “Your children sing calypsos.” My daughter is called Heather, and they would say,
“There goes Heather's father” or is it the other way around? Or they would see me and say, or
“Heather is your daughter.” That’s, I think that’s what I wanted to say, that's how it used to be. At
one time they would say, “Eh, that’s Short Pants,” or, “Heather is your daughter,” and so on. But
now they don’t say that. Now when they see me they say, “Look, Heather's father.”
HM: (Laughs.) They know you . . .
SP: They know her.
HM: . . . because of her.
SP: Yes. It's the other way around, right? They might know that I write for her, right? Working
here at the radio station, and as you heard this morning, there are callers. And there was an old
guy who would call regularly. In fact, he, a lot of the callers would assume a name. Most times
it’s from the district from which they called, so it's Miss Woodbrook or Mr. San Fernando, or
Miss Curepe as the case might be. But this fellow was called “Old Man” and eventually “Mr. Old
Man” and he would call. He got to like me a great deal in fact, he invited me home, told me
where he lived and I got to meet him and, lovely guy and a tremendous memory, and he
became a wonderful source of ideas for my programs. He would make suggestions and he
knew, he’s been around. He knew a about sport and he knew a lot about music. And he would
tell me about musicians, or he would call the radio and give us little snippets, and you could
follow that up and you’d get an idea for a program.
29:50
HM: So that was a source of inspiration, too.
SP: Right? One of the things he kept lamenting was the music of the 1950's and 60's, where
people went out on Saturday evenings and danced, and people fell in love. And the music kept
them in love and we were a nicer people because of it, right?
HM: So that there was a combination of the music, and the people being together, and . . .
SP: And he felt that the music did that, but he felt . . .
HM: There was a socializing element going on there that was positive.
�9
SP: Very. Yes. And he was sorry that, you know, and he felt that the radio played the kind of
music that inspired people to fall in love with each other and be nice. And you missing the music
and he would be talking about who the musicians were.
HM: The specific people.
SP: Right. And I would go and look and find the music, you know, play some of it
and eventually I wrote a calypso called “The Old Man's Lament” and gave it to my daughter to
sing.
HM: Ah. Great.
SP: In my own view she should have won.
HM: Well, that leads to a question. And I‘ve just got a couple more. I appreciate your time. With
all the social media and people being so tied to their phones and, is, it’s affected the way news
is disseminated. Has it changed calypso’s role as a source of information for people, because
they’re so tied into social media. Do you see calypso’s role being something different today
because of that than it was fifty years ago?
SP: Off the bat I would say maybe it should be, but somehow it hasn't, you know. It hasn't
because, well, at one time perhaps the calypso was simply the news, the information, or mainly
that. And I think of a calypso like “The Graf Zeppelin.” He’s just describing what is happening. I
think of the king who left the throne so he can get married to the American woman . . .
HM: The Duke of Windsor, yeah.
SP: Caresser sang. So you get the information. What you get now is the analysis.
HM: Is the commentary, like you were saying. So it’s not just the facts, it's, “Here’s a point of
view about the facts.”
SP: And that is where the political calypsos seems to be going, because this year 2017, there
was the big, well, it started last year there was this big debate about child marriages. Right?
HM: Right. And Chalkdust’s song.
SP: Exactly.
HM: That won. It’s about . . .
SP: It was a point of view. It was a point of view.
HM: About that issue.
SP: About.
HM: Discussed. It was discussed a lot.
SP: Right.
�10
HM: People were talking about it.
SP: And he wrote the calypso, you know, about it. And the, well, it is for me, and maybe I should
have done this before, but it now comes to mind, what makes the calypso so very different from
the ordinary pop song or the folk song. It’s the angle, that’s the word I use, the approach to the
song. So, it’s not just, one isn’t just saying, it isn’t, you’re not moving from point A to point B just
in a straight kind of way. There’s always an interesting, and that for me makes the calypso really
great. That the, you get all the information and you would hear me say, and I say it quite often to
my daughter when I’m trying to kind of educate her. I would look at a calypso and I would say,
“Pamphlet!” meaning a journalist could have written that, right? The calypso, really it adopts a
kind of position, it’s not just the straight fact. There is some angle that the writer uses which
makes it. Because what is the point of having a calypso, if, and I mean it answers the question
that you’ve just asked, if you’ve got all social media . . .
HM: You can already find that out.
35:04
SP: Right!
HM: Right there on your phone.
SP: Exactly. The calypso is different because the writer has to find a point of entry. Is the same
information, but when you see how he presents it, you say “hey” and that is . . .
HM: You see it a different way.
SP: That is the challenge every year for me of writing the song. How will I say it? So sometimes
you find the topic, if the thing is important enough maybe three or four other calypsonians would
have the same topic.
HM: Theme. Topic.
SP: But you know that the angle that you will come from . . .
HM: Will be different.
SP: Will be so different.
HM: It doesn’t seem to work as well, my limited experience, if I feel like you’re trying to, I’m
interested in your comment on this. If you’re trying to convince me, I mean, so you’re expressing
your point of view but, if I feel like you’re, do you feel this way? If someone is trying to, not ram it
down your throat, but trying to sell you, then it’s not as effective to me, it’s not as effective, but I
usually, that’s not usually how I feel. I mean, I don’t feel that way, that’s not a criticism, but do
you know what I’m saying? I’m trying to say, is that, is there calypso when it’s good, you don’t, it
makes you think, it’s not making you feel like, you know, I’m trying to convince you of my point
of view? Is there a difference, there? I’m asking a question, I guess, really, is there a difference
there?
�11
SP: Yeah. Let me answer you this way, I remember making a comment once and another
calypsonian eventually put it in a song and he quoted me. He said, you know, “Short Pants say
when you hear a good calypso you feel it inside.” And I am saying this to you deliberately,
because there are two calypsos that come to mind. One of the issues we have, many
Trinidadians, is trying to get to the United States. It's probably going to get worse, getting visas.
And not too far from here there is the embassy. Things I admit, things have improved
considerably, but five years ago it was awful. Meaning that people would be lining up four
o'clock in the morning, right? In fact, it got so bad that vagrants, who are homeless people,
people would come at nine in the night and pay them.
HM: To stand in line.
SP: To stand, to take up a position in the line. And then you go home and sleep and then you
come back seven o'clock in the morning and you pay off the vagrant so you get your position in
the line, right? It got very bad one year and I wrote a calypso, right? Another friend of mine also
wrote a calypso, and my daughter and this friend of mine, he wrote for another girl, they both
ended up in the same competition, and the angles were different. And I remember the other girl,
her calypso was called “Not Enough Ties,” because generally the U.S. Embassy would reject
you, reject your application because when you apply they want to see whether you have enough
ties to Trinidad and Tobago . . .
HM: To keep you here.
SP: Right. So that it’s really, it’s a vacation you are going on and you’re going to come back.
Because you have a wife, you have four children.
HM: A house, whatever.
SP: Right. If you don’t have, you know, if you can't justify, they will assume that you’re . . .
HM: That you’re going to stay.
SP: Right.
HM: Over there.
SP: So, you don’t get, so what she did is, she made a skirt out of ties and around her neck she
put a number of ties and in the calypso the one he wrote for her, she talked about things like
Taiwan, and she’s tied tongue, and so on, right, you know. And I am saying this was the angle
that she used. I think eventually she placed fourth in the competition. The one I wrote for my
daughter, the calypso was called "Keep It," right? And what I did, my approach was. “I don't
understand why you all would want to go to the States at all.” We have mountains we can look
at. We have rivers you can bathe in, we've got festival, there is one tonight in St. James, you
might have heard about it. So, you know, why are the Americans behaving like that, you know? I
mean, keep your visa. I can, you know, enjoy. So, what I wrote was really a patriotic song. So
even though I am attacking, if you want, the American Consulate . . .
HM: The policy.
�12
40:18
SP: And how the, and all the difficulties and, in fact, the way I saw it, the utter humiliation that
people were subjected to, to get to go to the United States, right? I in fact presented a patriotic
song. “This is a lovely country, we've got great things,” and the calypso listed all the things, you
know, called them and I deliberately made a list, you know, “This, this,” one after the other, and
when you felt normally this is where you would end the chorus, I doubled it, right? So, the
listener becomes overwhelmed with, "You know, we really, we don't really need to go to the
United States.” I mean she won. She won. And to my mind . . .
HM: She won.
SP: Galloping. Because what you saw was the patriotism, as distinct from . . .
HM: It still addressed the issue.
SP: Right.
HM: And so, I think what we’re getting into now is sort of nuance, of what makes a good
calypso.
SP: That’s right.
HM: And is, sometimes I’m thinking, relating it to country music, you can be too obvious.
SP: Right.
HM: And, so that’s kind of what I was getting at, so thank you for addressing that. I just was
going to finish with just a few quick questions about things like, the technical things like you
don't use a musical instrument when you write because you’re writing primarily words. Do you
write at a certain time of day more than another? Does it matter? I mean, what is your like
method, methodology as it were? Is it consistently . . .
SP: Consistently bad because I have a difficulty as a person with what the Carnival does to
another festival that I enjoy which is Christmas. Christmas comes on our calendar just before
Carnival. What, because of commercialization and all kinds of things, what happens is the
people who invest in Carnival, they want more time.
HM: Stretch it out.
SP: Right. So they start the Carnival earlier. December. In fact, there’s a band launch tonight.
They are launching a Carnival band . . .
HM: That is a Carnival band. I saw the advertisement.
SP: Tonight. That upsets me, right? And I have decided that that shouldn't happen. Let's have
Christmas and let after the Christmas we, ‘cause there are good things about Christmas that I
like and enjoy. So somewhere in my head I will not do the Carnival until after Christmas.
HM: So that’s, you wait until after Christmas to begin writing, basically.
�13
SP: Boxing Day. My daughter suffers. I’ve been lucky because she is bright. So, in October and
November the people she’ll, the people she’s competing with, they are coming out of the studio.
HM: Ah, she’s got to move it up, she’s gotta do it in a shorter frame of time, yeah.
SP: And there are times when I have to admit, maybe if I had given her the song two weeks
before it would have been better. She’d have done a better job.
HM: Had a better, more time to practice.
SP: But somehow . . .
HM: You just can't get into it until after Christmas.
SP: I, I mean, for 2018 I'm telling myself, “Please let me try to,” but somehow something in me
opposes that, so for the last five years, and somehow, now, don't misunderstand me. I know the
topic, I know the theme.
HM: So, you have those already in your mind.
SP: Right. And, and, and . . .
HM: So, it's just a matter of sitting down and writing, working it out.
44:51
SP: Right. Boxing Day. In fact, nowadays, I go on the computer. Now that she’s older and she
can challenge lines. I mean she didn't do it when she was younger. She now challenges lines
that I write, you know. I would do things on the computer, email it to her, right? When the ideas
come because I will tell her, you know, “I feel we should sing on . . .
HM: This idea.
SP: Right, but I'm looking for the road, there’s the language we use, meaning I’m looking for the
best way of saying it, right? I'm not going to do what the journalist is doing, right?
HM: How to approach it.
SP: Right.
HM: The road.
SP: But the information, the things I would say,
HM: You have those . . .
SP: I start. No. I start collecting. I’m collecting. So, I get (imitates typing). Save that. I am
now giving her the work. Save that. And then, come December, say, “Okay, send it back to me.”
�14
She’s got computer skills that I don't have. She'll put all into a folder and she send the folder
back and we've got thirty-one things, forty things. I take and I print and I have fifty pages.
HM: Wow.
SP: And I go through the fifty pages with the highlighter and I highlight, right? And then I take a
sheet of paper, is typically what I do (Folds sheet of paper.) And I fold it and I get four. Right?
HM: You get four.
SP: If I . . .
HM: If you folded that.
SP: . . . if I fold this twice.
HM: Okay. Then you get four. Four squares, basically. Or rectangles.
SP: Right. And the fifty pages I have that I go thru and highlight, I group them. Okay, I’ll handle
this in the first stanza.
HM: Oh, those are the four stanzas.
SP: I do this. I do this in the sec-, I would talk about this in the, I talk about this in the fourth
stanza.
HM: Ah. Okay. That’s how you organize what you’re going to put in each stanza.
SP: Right. And the other thing I do is since she’s got to sing it and I’ve tried to tell her that, I say,
“Since you've got to sing it, the song can't be boring. The song has four stanzas, so they will
listen to your first stanza, yes, they will listen to the second, by the time you get to the third it
might wane, so that third stanza has to be powerful.”
HM: It has to do, yeah, it really has to be good to keep their attention.
SP: Right. So, my third stanza therefore I put everything into it.
HM: Does she perform under the name Heather Mac Intosh.
SP: Yeah. Mm-hm.
HM: I’m going to look up . . .
SP: You would see her work on . . .
HM: YouTube?
SP: Yes, she's done really well, you know. So that’s . . .
�15
HM: That’s your process, yeah, well, that, you just described, you know, your writing process,
but now you don't have the same person to work with on guitar. Do you have someone else that
does the music?
SP: Yes, what has happened in the, very recently, the last four years or so, we've got an
extremely well-respected, and good musician called Pelham Goddard, right? And I just
happened to be walking down the road one day and he was passing. He was coming in the
opposite direction. I knew who he is, never had anything to do with him but I knew who he is. I
mean, he is . . . And as I went past him, a voice said, “When Heather is ready you can bring
her.” And you know, he said, “Whenever Heather ready, bring her, nuh.”
HM: Wow. Yeah.
SP: So, I took Heather to his studio. So now, a lot of the work . . .
HM: The musical work.
SP: Comes . . .
HM: Comes from him.
SP: . . . comes out of, yeah, out of his studio. I, well, I have now learned, Heather might have
shown me how to record on the cell phone. So, I have rudiments, if you can call them.
HM; Just some ideas.
SP: Musical ideas, that is, right? I wake up three o'clock in the morning. And it has happened
enough times for me to know to take it seriously. I get up at three o'clock in the morning and
there's something I can hum or sing, a line. I can do it, and I say, “Six o'clock, when I get up,”
when I get up at six o’clock it's gone.
HM: Gone. You got to get up and do it.
SP: No matter how I can't pull it back.
HM: Yeah. Been there.
49:51
SP: So three o'clock in the morning when you get up, you do it, go on the computer, you write,
sometimes it’s just two lines, just one line, right? I still fiddle around with the guitar just that, just
fiddle around a little bit. I take up the (sings several notes).
HM: Sing into your phone.
SP: Take one. Do it again. Take two (sings several notes). Later on Heather, who, she learned,
I eventually sent her to do singing formally and she can, she’d say, “But this one is different from
that,” and I say no because I'm not really a, I mean, yeah, I sing calypsos but I'm not the singer,
right? I am . . .
�16
HM: She’s saying you’re changing it.
SP: I'm really the writer and you know so I have variation. And I go into the studio with that. Now
I can I go to the studio with two or three lines, the idea, and so on, and, well, Pelham is good.
He gets on the piano and sometimes I wonder how I dare, I say to him, “No! Not that!” But I am
not a musician.
HM: But it’s just not what you’re hearing . . .
SP: It’s not right! Right?
HM: . . . in your head.
SP: And my daughter will tell you because I tell her that all the time. I said, “I’m hearing it.” She’ll
say, “Well, sing it for me.” “I can't sing it, but I am hearing it, so I want you to play for me what
I'm hearing, what I can't sing for you.”
HM: So, they’ll try some things and you’ll say, “That's it!”
SP: Right.
HM: “Not that one, this one.”
SP: Right. And we get some things and we record and it’s a little better. And I go back and I
come back and, right, and he will tell me, “No,” I will say, “Nah. Yuh mad. Not that, not that.
This, right, we got to do.” And I will try and, you know and it’s work and we do all that from
Boxing Day. And other tents are opening, other people are starting to sing, release their stuff.
HM: Yeah. You’ve got to do it all really quickly.
SP: But it seems as though under the intense pressure, right? So, it's hardly a daylight thing. It's
not as if I haven't written things in the daylight. You know, but it’s hardly a daylight thing.
HM: It’s usually at night.
SP: It’s 1 am.
HM: When things are happening for you.
SP: Right.
HM: When you’re getting ideas.
SP: And sometimes I have been, “I can't rest,” to come to it. It’s not that. I'm doing the usual
thing. You’re washing the car. Sometimes I cook something.
HM: Sure, you’re busy with something else.
SP: I go out, right? And at one o'clock everything shuts down. The house just shut down,
everybody, turn off the TV, just the dogs are barking, the occasional car, and you sit there. And
�17
at five thirty when the birds started to, you've got three stanzas and you say, “Nice, I can go to
sleep now.” I can always write before it’s sun. I might even write it in the day, but, and I get the
three.
HM: Well, I’d like to continue this conversation at another time, and I, but I really appreciate your
time today and I won’t take any more of it, but you’ve been very generous and I’ve really
enjoyed, I’ve learned a lot just listening.
SP: Well . . .
HM: So, thank you.
SP: I feel it’s different for everybody, but . . .
End of interview
�
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
J. Hunter Moore
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Short Pants (Llewellyn Mac Intosh)
Location
The location of the interview
Radio station studio on Maraval Road, Port of Spain, Trinidad and Tobago, following Short Pants's weekly calypso program
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
53:22
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Short Pants Mac Intosh interview
Description
An account of the resource
Actual name: Llewellyn Mac Intosh
Date of birth: July 4, 1948
Place of birth: Pointe-a-Pierre, Trinidad and Tobago
Awards (as of March 2018): National Extempo finalist (multiple years), Most Humorous Calypso, 2009 (for “De Infidel”)
Best songs/best-known songs: “The Law is an Ass,” “De Infidel”
------------------------------------------
Individuals heard during the interview:
SP: Short Pants
HM: Hunter Moore
------------------------------------------
Trinidad and Tobago terms and expressions as used in the transcript:
Knock on: to improvise on a musical instrument
Nuh: you know
Yuh: you’re
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-09-30
-
https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/40461/archive/files/3af1b6e0e6bfb2bb4babb35798713d19.jpg?Expires=1712793600&Signature=JJ8PQhNRUmAa2GeGZYab6GBUS0Pki46Ler%7E-6532aiwz6AmnsCkba0eqTQkoww%7EOVJh3sLh2FRFdhFxt2ZO78EJ-Yaq2zYtKFgsZlYHevfsU-EtXMjHsO9GIZT3O3XX%7ELkZCvp4YnVwoqeVncVaBP4SVKCsqpCFjBfi35q5xmxfMU2RD%7EF%7EMsBM-nio0w4Mi9vjXp88W06nxyDS21cQV-gepN4WBMWpqqu-n2IINpQDbLqqMW4Szreuw-fnbw7AivX-5c8XnQsPGtB-PENrvCOMpGR55-ODSpAGRuhU35f9WCqvrhQHzTql-qMgHM%7E-GLyYc-5lnIzM%7Ew9Z%7EeMbb%7Eg__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM
4185492a3053e96a55381fa2842f0d21
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
SpiceY
https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/40461/archive/files/937113b72ae3fd98d3388e574a48c6d5.mp3?Expires=1712793600&Signature=oPSlbZe01A7fexyx9BAFHnevIueSgzBzA%7EOSGmtAQ8sdrNd8%7EQ7-aD59evA4CyucrfQwOndnO6s1A5TfD6gipudvXEGzks6w2N5acEDavi4KLLbnKb4ixtFkePwDc1B%7Eacs5HYS%7Es23gJAzQ4nKZPasD%7EJAH8gqrRC3tAoSQTkZYnby16Le%7EXCRbzjr7M7sadmTKGD4RsbvuWXtqeramn9UN4aGkV4DSxOxChUpKotkocKJ5rIS6wH90oGMgln6cj95p8aWh9HcZ%7EVLXvlCxHTgKJ031hsa24469AusvI8W1AicMXd2vM85iCrhjn-gkB7LQxvT7zar%7EubTBehaiEQ__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM
557a405b92ed85edbf27c4dd0bef3687
https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/40461/archive/files/52349ae4c3335861a649a1d5aad56167.pdf?Expires=1712793600&Signature=BI-vL84kpaskmZry6aJVBoUD550BKSPa1eWrVhfuaVVH99ESDs-iA7zvQs-e5W%7E74AfaOj8p9eMprMr%7EMaPTCBrN2RYh2ID5XkjIqLsA%7EJBqBbr7DmPg3nnZTbbCzggTRV8zrfE8aTTz74VdXD5dLYC5bcg4V6aUDjxigyMXijdcfHYrO2UOnLwH1hspyY8D3F1A3kcTV3vPy9-IEjyWBljJr6Ugq07qSaLJkoW6w3%7EfoSpmWHN5bDDMexiRcYef-Fy8Is9lqXlQxhgncTY7DI80nL1U3sX1R8WSCkuIQIWUlR4GKqqFOUrNPM8vPYuxz5UuDZORkCOOnWLaVvEsng__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM
5e7591c8dafcad6fbeb62584b6e22797
PDF Text
Text
Interview subject: SpiceY
Interviewer: J. Hunter Moore
Date: October 23, 2017
Location of interview: National Academy for the Performing Arts (NAPA), Port of Spain, Trinidad
and Tobago
Actual name: Tammico Moore
Date of birth: May 17, 1976
Place of birth: San Fernando, Trinidad and Tobago
Awards (as of March 2018): Calypso Monarch semi-finals, 2008, 2018, Arouca Calypso
Monarch, 2015, Chaguanas Calypso Monarch, 2009, Best Musical Director-Best Village
competition, 2018
Best songs/best-known songs: “Man in Dat,” “The Whip”
--------------------------------------Individuals heard during interview:
S: SpiceY
HM: Hunter Moore
--------------------------------------Trinidad and Tobago terms and expressions as used in the interview:
APA: Academy for the Performing Arts, a school of the University of Trinidad and Tobago
Ah: I, I’m, or as an interjection: “Ah!”
Dey: there
Doh: don’t
Eh: ain’t, can also add emphasis at the end of a phrase
In two twos: very quickly, in no time at all
Meh: my
NAPA: National Academy for the Performing Arts, Port of Spain, Trinidad and Tobago
Nuh: you know
�2
UTT: University of Trinidad and Tobago
Whey: what, where
Yuh: you, you’re
--------------------------------------Subject sings: 43:40
--------------------------------------Notes about interview: the final (approx.) 30 seconds of the interview was on an unrelated topic
and has not been included
--------------------------------Interview:
HM: We’re here at NAPA. I'm here with SpiceY, Tammico Moore, talking about her songwriting
and other things, and why don't we start with your telling me when you began composing
calypsos.
S: I began composing calypsos safe to say when I was a little girl (Laughs.) Let me see, I was in
maybe Form One or Two which would have made me ten or eleven? And we had an
assignment to do for the class, a group assignment and the topic was something “Then to Now”
and to make a comparison. And the day for the presentation I realized that the group didn’t
really have anything, so, I was like, “Okay, so what are we going to do now?” and said, “Well, I
have this piece of information, have that piece of information.” I said, “Okay, calm down.”
(Laughs.) I took everybody's information and I wrote a song called “Calypso Then” . . . “Calypso
Then to Now.” Yeah, I think that was the name. But that was the assignment. “Then to Now”
was the assignment. I think the calypso was “Calypso Long Ago,” or something like that, and
when was time to do the presentation, no one wanted to talk so I decided to sing it. (Laughs.) All
on that day, all on that first day, all of that happened, all at once, and that was my first
composition.
H: I’m just aware, too, this is a very sensitive mic and anytime you might hit the table . . .
S: (Whispers.) Okay.
HM: . . . we might get a sound so I just was thinking of that while we were talking.
S: Okay. (Laughs.)
HM: But this, it’s so, that’s why I have this over this, too, because even the air conditioning can
make a sound if it blows on it, so I just want to mention that.
HM: Well, how do you know when it’s calypso?
S: The sound?
�3
HM: I mean what, I mean, first of all do you compose any other kind of music besides calypso?
S: I do all kind of music.
HM: What are some of the other kinds of music?
S: I write reggae, I have some soca parang, I did one chutney and here at APA, I studied
classical music, so I did some classical music as well.
HM: So that being said, you compose several different kinds of music, so what makes calypso
different? What, when you say, “Okay, this is going to be calypso.” What is that, mean for you?
S: For me once it's home, I see it as calypso because it's home and I am doing it. I am a
Trinidadian. Calypso is our thing so it’s calypso.
HM: And that feels different when you are doing the other kinds of music, parang or . . .
S: When I'm doing, now my father, my father was also a, he is deceased now, he was also a
composer. He was also a calypsonian, and parang was one of his favorites. So, I started doing
parang through him because it was something that he loved. So when he started doing parang
‘cause he started late, recording late, when he started doing parang I started to accompany him.
I went to the studio and did some background vocals for him on stuff that he did before, the
same soca parang. And then one day he said, “So, why you eh try one?” I said, “Why you eh
write one for meh?” He said, “I eh writing for no writer.” (Laughter.) Right? So, then I went home.
I said, “I have to write a parang, yes?” And it took me about a year or two before I actually wrote
a parang. And I did one and then when I did the parang I called him and I said, “Daddy dear, I
write a parang.” I said, “You have to come up the road to hear it.” Because at that time I was
living in Chaguanas and the studio was in a living room, alright, and so the producer was Mr.
Bailey, Sharlan Bailey, and I said, “Bailey, hear this song, hear this song.” And when I sang it
for him, he just started building the beat. And I was like, “Yeah that sounding good. Yeah that
sounding good,” and before you know it I had a soca parang. So when my father came up and
he hear it he says, “You trying to take my work now.” (Laughter.) You . . .
HM: Competition.
S: Yeah, yeah. “So you trying to take my work now.” I said, “No, eh you tell me you eh writing for
no writers, so I showing you I could write.”
HM: You’re a natural, but that, but when you’re writing calypso, what you’re saying, is it just has,
there’s something about it that feels like home, I mean it’s . . .
4:54
S: Yes it does, but not just that, to me music, music to me, because I've done all kind of music
and I love all kind of music, because of that, music is just music. Because I'm in Trinidad, you
know the saying when you’re with the Romans you do like the Romans? So I'm in Trinidad, I
have to do what's marketable here you know? And as much as I love calypso, I love calypso, I
have a passion for calypso, honestly, if I were to do a reggae or some kinda thing it may not be
as, I don’t know, sellable, marketable in Trinidad as if I were to do a calypso.
�4
HM: But calypso is not the most popular music in Trinidad.
S: No, it's not. No, it’s not.
H: So, it might not be the most financially rewarding.
S: It is not financially rewarding, that is another thing.
H: But it’s important to you.
S: It’s not, it’s very important. I just, I can't explain that but, I think this is what I was born to do
and is why I'm still doing it, even though I haven't reaped any financial benefits from it. I think
the reason I'm still doing it is because I have to.
HM: It’s something in you.
S: So I try not to question it, I just do it until I could not do it anymore.
HM: But, you, from a very early age, in the home you grew up in, you knew what calypso was
and it was just in you, right?
S: I grew up with Rastafarians, my entire family, everybody’s Ras, and at the same time my
grandfather loved calypso. So I would hear calypso in the house. I would also hear all the
foundation reggae music in the house, and then there was my aunt, which is my mother's sister.
She liked R&B, she liked pop, so I would get that music as well. And then I was very close to my
grandmother. We all lived in the same house. My grandmother, we lived next to a church. She
was Spiritual Baptist and that life was very important to her and I was mama’s spoiled child, so I
used to be up and down with her. So I used to be going to church with her. So the Baptist
church . . .
HM: Was an influence, too.
S: . . . also influenced me so it was just a general all-round music. I had music from everywhere.
HM: You had so much going, yeah.
S: You know.
HM: Coming from different directions.
S: Yeah, from different directions and not one of them ever said I don't want you to listen to this,
and I don't want you to do that, and so I was exposed to everything. Yeah?
HM: So that all went into the mix for you.
S: Yep.
HM: When you are writing calypso are you influenced by these other kinds of music? Or are you
just thinking calypso, or are you bringing in other influences? Are you aware of . . .
�5
S: It all depends on what the topic is. For instance, okay, for instance, “The Whip.” When I did
“The Whip,” I wrote “The Whip” in 2008. I performed it in 2009. The composition was from an
experience. Most of my work, calypsos, are from experiences.
HM: Personal experience, yeah.
S: And for me to get there I was travelling in a taxi home from a performance and the taxi driver
almost raped me. He almost, (Laughs.) I had to stop, drop, and literally roll out of the car. And
the expression, “Take that, feel cat/If is cat you want, is cat you going to get/I have the cat o’
nine tail.” It was me, it was how I feeling at the point in time when the man was slapping my
breasts and asking me if that was real. I just felt like I coulda just be a superhero and just beat
this man. So, the feeling never got out of my head and I always felt as though I had to do
something about it, right? So where the music concerned and the melody, it was just a driving
force at that time ‘cause if you listen to the music and it’s aggressive and it’s angry and the
whole persona on stage, the leather, the whip, it was just an angry song. Because that was how
I felt.
HM: It represented the emotion.
S: Yes, yes.
HM: That you were sort of the physical embodiment of the emotion . . .
S: Yes.
HM: . . . that you were feeling.
S: Mm-hm. So most times when I am composing, the melody or the music that would go with
the lyrics would be from a feeling from whatever feeling I’m having at the point in time when I'm
writing the song. And then when I go to the producer, my latest work, most of my latest work
here I have done it with Sharlan Bailey, Shadow’s son, and he would give it a direction as in the
sense of, “I don't think that would make sense for the song,” or, “Yes, that would work,” you
know? Yeah.
10:14
HM: So, yeah, you’re getting, you’re bringing in the composition, are you, when you play it for
him, your producer, are you playing him a version that’s you singing accompanied by guitar or
another instrument, or is it just you singing?
S: Just me singing.
HM: So, does he help, are you working with him then to come up with the chords, the music
part?
S: No, well actually when I sing it to him I would have, I have brass lines in my head. I have a
bass line, and I’m saying that I would have a bass line, but bass lines in Dread Wizard
Production Studio, Mr. Bailey’s studio, they synonymous with the Baileys (Laughs.). They all
�6
have this driving bass line, so even though I go with a concept and go with what I want, it
always ends up being, when you hear it, you know that’s a Bailey bass line
HM: “Cause he’s adding his . . .
S: Yes.
HM: . . . his musicality to it.
S: Yes.
HM: But you come in with a pretty distinct idea of what you want the music to be.
S: Yeah. Yeah, definitely.
HM: Ah, but then you work it out with him in terms of the final arrangement.
S: Yes, yes.
HM: So in terms of other music influencing you, would you s-, would it be accurate to say that
when you’re selecting the music for your lyrics, or building the music and the lyrics together, that
you use whatever music seems to be appropriate to the feeling of the song? Or . . .
S: Yeah
HM: . . . more than a style, like, “I’m going to make this a little more reggae style, number, or
something, I mean, you’re not thinking that so much, you’re . . .
S: Not necessarily, okay, when I was out in the cruise ship, ‘cause I did some years on the
cruise ship, so I was back and forth the cruise ship, home for Carnival, the cruise ship, home for
Carnival. And I think 2012, 2011 or 2012, I did this reggae called “Forever,” and when I wrote it
out on the cruise ship, when I was writing it, it was a reggae. It sounded like a reggae to me.
HM: It sounded like that in your head.
S: Yeah. And then when I came home and I sang it to Bailey, he was saying, “This could be a
real bad reggae, you know. You sure? You sure this is what you want to do?” I said, “Yeah,
sure.” But I was never totally sure ‘cause the song still there, half-way recorded and I didn't do
anything else with it.
HM: Wasn’t really working for you, yeah.
S: I just, it's a beautiful song. It would be a big song on the market if it were to be finished, and
released, and marketed properly and all of that and I just, it didn't feel right.
HM: For you as an artist.
S: Yeah, for me as an artist.
HM: Maybe somebody else as an artist.
�7
S: Exactly. So I've been trying to shop the song, but I just, I need to part with it first.
HM: Oh, I know it’s hard to let ‘em go.
S: Yeah. I need to part with the song, because I actually gave it to two people and take it back
already. So I need to part with the song because I find that they’re not doing what they, what I
think the song could do. So I wasn’t comfortable with their delivery, and I was saying, “Nah, I
don’t think that gon’ work.”
HM: Maybe you need to be a producer on this one (Laughter.) Where, you’ve talked about some
of this some already, but where do you find your ideas? Generally, how, where do they come
from?
S: Anywhere and everywhere because the vibes always in the atmosphere anyway. Alright, so,
“D’ Advice.” I got “D’ Advice” a Sunday morning. It was about a couple weeks, three weeks
before the tent opened. Now, right now, I don't audition for the tents anymore, thank God. I
don’t, you know? But I am lucky that they said, “Okay, SpiceY you just drop in a CD so we will
hear what you have.” Right? So I doesn’t have to worry about auditions. But it was about three
weeks before the tent opened and I hadn't dropped in a CD yet, right? So I was a little bit
worried and I said, “Look, Bailey, (three missing words). I feel I have to go outside and just go
outside and just sit down and it go come, I'll find it somewhere.” And I left home like about
quarter after seven this Sunday morning and we stop by a bar in Belmont. I started to drink a
beer. You know people go to church on a Sunday morning? I stop to drink a beer. (Laughs.)
And I stop by the bar and I having this beer and these three men having this conversation. And
one guy was complaining that he had this wife and he’s doing everything for her and she just
nagging and she nagging and she wouldn't stop. And his partner tell him, “That is you. Once
you know how to come, you have to know how to go,” and when he said it, I said "Okay, thanks,
bye-bye.” (Laughter.)
HM: “Thank you for that.”
15:07
S: And that was the song. Sometimes it's, it's just one word will trigger an entire song and at that
point in time I needed that particular song because that same year we had like an upsurge of . .
.
HM: Domestic violence.
S: . . . domestic violence and it was heartbreaking, and I do a lot of songs on relationships
because I try to do songs for women to get awareness and to uplift the young girls and, you
know, to talk to the teenage boys, you know? I try to do those kind of songs. Things that positive
in my sight. They positive, right? And to me that song was necessary, so when it came, I said,
“That is the song dey.” I sit down and listen to them a two minutes again and I said, “Alright,
thanks, eh, ah go see all you.” I went home and in two two's I had the entire song with, including
encore verses, right? So it is just take an energy, a force that’s somewhere up there. It always
floating, you just have to be at the right place at the right time and catch it . . .
HM: So . . .
�8
S: . . . absorb it.
HM: . . . it can be, in that case it’s inspired by what somebody said and my next question is
gonna be are there certain themes you’re drawn to? And you just said specifically . . .
S: Yeah.
HM: . . . women’s issues, that relate to women and/or younger women . . .
S: Yes.
HM: . . . facing some of these issues. What other, are, are there other themes besides
relationships and directed specifically to women, I mean obviously some of these songs also
address the men, right? In the relationship.
S: Well, in the songs that I talk about that I say for women, I always have a couple of verses for
the men because I don't want them to feel like I'm bashing them, and I don't want them to feel
left out, because SpiceY’s, I don’t just come on the stage and look sexy for the ladies to be
happy, right? I want the men to be happy, too, even though you are looking at me and know
that, I know that you can get happy from that. (Laughs.) But you know I still want to be able to
send you home with something . . .
HM: To think about.
S: . . . to think about, you know? So most times, like for instance in “Ah Want to Know, Ah Got to
Know Yuh, Before Ah Know Yuh,” I have a verse for the men that telling the men, “Don’t feel it's
just so, you have to know the woman too before you know her. You just see some breasts and
you get excited like you never seen a breast before, that is not how it does go. (Laughs.) You
have to take your time, find out is she do mammogram, find out if she went and had all her
tests. Make sure all her teeth right, you know? Just, you know?
HM: Care about the whole person.
S: Yeah.
HM: And so . . .
S: And then I always try for the entertainment value of it, too, even though it’s very serious
topics. For the entertainment value I always try to make it funny, but by nature I am a shit talker
By nature I does talk plenty shit and some people does tend to laugh. It is not a joke I'm making,
I'm serious, it's just how I say it. People tend to laugh. So I does put myself in the right thing so I
might write things that you may find funny. Because, frankly, I make some humorous finals with
these serious songs . . .
HM: That’s interesting, isn’t it?
S: . . . because people are laughing.
HM: ‘Cause they’re laugh-, I think part of that is your presentation is, you’re not, it doesn’t feel
like you’re pointing fingers, even though the lyric is addressed to people. It’s not like you’re
�9
preaching. The way that you deliver it makes it very attractive. It makes the audience come to
you.
S: Yeah. It makes you want to listen.
HM: It’s a very interesting thing you’re doing on stage. Because, we’re, I’m wandering a little bit
from composing, in that you consciously, like you say, look attractive on the stage and present
yourself that way, but you’re not doing it, you’re doing it to me in a strong, from strength, not
trying to please.
S: Mm-hm.
HM: And it’s just interesting to me to watch. “She’s doing that. How does she do that?”
(Laughs.)
S: Sometimes I don't even know what I'm doing until somebody says, “You know what you be
doing on stage does look real mischievous on stage." I does say, "Me?"
HM: Yeah. But, it’s attractive in a good way. I think it brings people to your lyric. It brings people
...
S: Yeah.
HM: . . . into the song, where it could be something else. It could be off-putting or hard to
receive. You encourage people to receive your lyric.
20:08
S: And then I have been told many times that my lyrics are kind of raunchy and some people
find that sometimes I am a bit too harsh. But I think it's just about being real and I think people
understand you better when you are real. You don't want to go up there, you singing to this
group of people, this group of people right here. You seeing the group of people. You know
where they come from. You think they want to hear you use big words? They come to enjoy
themselves so they want things that could just, they could catch it quickly and they have to think
too much to understand what you really trying to say and “What she talk ‘bout again? That’s
some kind of thing with history in it?”
HM: You need notes.
S: Yeah they don't want that, you know, even though calypso is how the stories are told. It also
has to be entertaining.
HM: True.
S: And if you want the entertainment value to be of value, then it must be interesting. You have
to do something to hold them. And in my case, because if you ask anybody about SpiceY, and
�10
they, you ask them, “So what does she look like?” You s-, “She wear dress and boots.” Because
SpiceY synonymous with dress and boots. I don't go on stage without boots.
HM: So that’s your, that’s sort of a trademark for you.
S: Yes.
HM: So you want to have something they can identify and I think . . .
S: So, and the men does be looking out for that. They does look out for me to come out in some
kinda sexy outfit. They looking out for that.
HM: For that thing.
S: Yeah.
HM: Well it works, definitely works. Are there any other themes, though? I mean I didn't hear
you do anything political for example.
S: I try to stay out of politics, but I did one or two, not, it wasn't the punch that we do and make a
final or win a Monarch with here. That's probably why I never make a Monarch final. (Laughs.)
I'm laughing about it, but this is serious. Yeah, but I try to tend to stay away from politics
because this entertainment, this is my job, so whatever government in power and the
administration, whichever administration it is, wants an entertainer they can afford to call me
because I eh going to sing about PNM, and I eh going to sing about UNC. I eh singing ‘bout the
Partnership. I doh, people, sometimes people don’t want to hear what they read in the papers
every day.
HM: They want to be enter-, like you’re saying, entertained . . .
S: Yes, yes.
HM: . . . taken somewhere else. But you make them think, but you’re focused more on
relationships.
S: Yeah and then when you leave Trinidad and Tobago, what, so you only want to be a Trinidad
and Tobago artist? You can't sing the political songs outside, nobody knows about that.
HM: No Doctor.
S: Nobody knows about Kamla, Keith, and Manning, and Eric, you know.
HM: They don’t know all the names of the people. But that’s a long tradition in calypso to sing
about very specific things like that.
S: Yeah.
HM: Like even Chalkdust’s song this year was a local issue.
S: Yes, it was.
�11
HM: But that . . .
S: Yes, it was.
HM: I’m not, I just was curious sort of what your take on that was. How are you, you are not
political, but how are you influenced by your community? How does the community, ‘cause I’ve
always thought of calypsonians being really in touch with their communities, though, kind of
reflecting their community in what they’re singing about.
S: Okay, so I grew up in Marabella which is in South, south part of Trinidad, really nice place,
and when I was twenty years old I moved to Enterprise in Chaguanas, which is now deemed a
“hot spot.” Now for the past nine years I've been living in the West, Cocorite, which is also
deemed another hot spot.
HM: So now, explain what a hot spot is.
S: So a hot spot is supposed to be a area where a lot of crime happens and the citizens don't
feel safe in the community, and the citizens kinda have a self-imposed curfew, because
basically, as what I said in the third song that I sang in the set, “Afraid to Go Outside,” basically,
and that’s how it is. But for instance, Enterprise, when I moved to Enterprise it was not what it is
today, right now. And the image that is painted in the media is still a whole lot more than what
really going on. Because most times they doing these things in the media to sell the papers.
25:14
HM: More the higher profile, or it’s sensational. That’s, they want, they pick sensational things.
S: Yeah, yeah. And it's the same thing that's happening in Cocorite. Now I am happy that we
have so much police patrol and the presence of the police in the community at present, but it eh
doing nothing for me that they are there, because they’re just there.
HM: It’s not really changing anything.
S: You know when they come? When the person’s already dead. While the shots going on, they
not coming you know. They staying away from that you see, the minute it done and they making
sure that whoever was shot dead first before they come. So then they making the area a hot
spot. You know, so I think that it’s unfair to label these places as a hot spot, but like in the
Enterprise community, when I perform, like when I just moved there, and I, and they know me
performing and that kinda thing, I got full support because they never really had somebody from
the Enterprise area.
HM: A singer from there.
S: Yeah, that was a calypsonian that was, that coulda been seen on TV and seen competing in
a competition, so it was something good for them. It was something uplifting for them. So . . .
HM: They were proud of that
�12
S: Yeah, so every time I go out to perform. Some people I have never even spoken to from
Enterprise does be like, “SpiceY, that is we girl, you know. When you see she go on stage, she
mashing up the place, you know,” and that is what it was for them, nah. So I am thinking, when
you deem these places hot spots and you take all of these things, because when you does
deem it a hot spot all these things not gonna happen in the area no more, because I could
remember our tent, when I was at Klassic Ruso, the tent travelled to Enterprise to have a show.
Now nobody not going to Enterprise to have no show. So you taking these things away, so what
you expect to happen?
HM: So it’s almost self-fulfilling. You call it a hot spot, and it becomes a hot spot.
S: Yeah, it definitely will. And as for Cocorite, now I recently moved there like about eight or nine
years, right? So as for Cocorite, so they now getting to know me. So the few semi-finals that I've
made within the time? I'm like everybody favorite person in Cocorite right now. (Laughs.)
HM: You’re a personality. Well does that come into your writing? What you’re just telling me
about, has that shown up in your writing? Or how you write, or the emotion in your song, these,
the fact that your part of this community that’s proud of you? Or how does that affect your, does
it just give you more reason to write?
S: It gives me . . .
HM: Or more inspiration or encouragement?
S: It gives me encouragement, it gives me encouragement, because when I go out there, I must
say that I am from this community and this community doesn't only do those things that all you
talking about. This community also have people that do bachelor’s and master’s, and sing
calypso, write calypso, and produce calypso. This community have that, too.
HM: So you feel the burden, and not a bad way, burden of responsibility to represent them. To .
..
S: Definitely.
HM: . . . to give people a different idea of what this community is.
S: Definitely. This is why sometimes is very disappointing as a artiste coming out of the “hot
spots.” That when, like when you don’t make a finals, you feel disappointed not only for you.
HM: But for them.
S: You feel disappointed because, “Oh, gosh . . .
HM: I let them down.
S: Yeah, because these people . . .
HM: They were cheering for you, and they wanted you to do well . . .
S: Yes, yes. Very much so.
�13
HM: That’s the hard part of that. That’s great that you have the support of your community.
S: Yes, I do, I do, I do. And most recently I have just found a new family in another “hot spot,”
(Laughs.) the Malick Folk Performing Company. I am now the musical director there. So they
had the Best Village Competition this year and I won Best Musical Director, and I had to arrange
songs for the choir, arrange songs in the play, and it was a first experience for me but it was . . .
HM: Exciting.
S: . . . fabulous. I really, really enjoy it.
HM: Yeah, I've heard a little bit about the Best Village competition. That's a big deal.
S: Yeah.
HM: That's a big deal for the communities that participate. I know you said you’re learning to
play guitar, are there any other instrument that you play?
30:08
S: Yeah, keyboard. I'm learning to play keyboard as well. I'm just learning . . .
HM: Working on both of those.
S: . . . because I have a couple students that I do vocal coaching with, so it's easier for me to
run scales with them . . .
HM: On the piano.
S: . . . on the piano, right? So when I say I'm learning, I am making sure that I can run those
scales well, (Laughs.) with ease, with all the exercises that I do with them. And that's why I
practice the exercises I do with them. As for the guitar, I have a guitar. I actually have two
guitars, alright? I'm learning to play the guitar for one, two reasons. One of them is that I want to
be able at some point in time, because I do small concerts and stuff, right, so I want to be able
at some point in time to do an acoustic set and sit and play for myself.
HM: Accompany yourself.
S: Yes, I want to achieve that as a personal achievement that I must have, and another one is
when I am writing, I think that if I could play an instrument it will help me to develop more the
kind of ideas and thoughts that I have when I am writing because sometimes I feel like I'm
limited because I can't really play anything.
HM: You’re just singing to yourself.
S: Yeah, like right now I know about five chords, so it's like the same thing over and over, you
know, so.
HM: But that might limit the kinds of songs that you write or . . .
�14
S: Exactly.
HM: I knew a songwriter, friend of mine who is very good, who knew how to play guitar, but he
actually took lessons to learn some new chords because, some new progressions of chords,
because he felt like he was just recycling.
S: Yeah.
HM: You know?
S: Yeah.
HM: And I thought, “That’s really neat,” you know?
S: That’s why, up to now, I don’t try to write just because I know just these four, five chords. I
don't try to write with the guitar . . .
HM: You don’t want that to limit you.
S: Yeah, because then I would be limited to just those four five chords that I have, you know?
HM: Yeah, I've heard somebody else say that same thing. So, are you taking lessons or are you
just teaching yourself from a book?
S: No, well, Bailey kinda helping me. Sharlan Bailey.
HM: Kind of showing you some things?
S: Yeah, yeah.
HM: Yeah. So you’ve kind of told me this, about how you start, ‘cause this, these last few
questions just have to do with kind of the actual process, that you’ll get an idea and, but you
said some of that before I turned on the tape, so once you have an idea like overhearing the
men in the bar, what happens next?
S: (Laughs.) Well, then I would, well I start writing from where ever I get the idea until I get
home. So it's all in my head. If, or if I have a book, I start writing then and there and most times
‘cause I always have a big hand bag. I always have a book in there. I always have a couple
pens in there or pencils and I will start writing from where ever I am, right? So like that particular
song on that day, I started writing from in the car to head home. And by the time I got home I
had two verses and choruses. I didn't even take off my shoe, I didn't say good afternoon to
anybody or morning to anybody in the house.
HM: Ran in the door.
S: I just went straight inside, my little daughter was like "Mummy." I was, “Not now, Anesha,”
and I just went straight to the bedroom and I sat there and everything was just coming out. And
that's not always the process, nuh, you know, so like for that particular song? After that I read
over what I had and then I sang over what I had, and then I said, “Nah, I feel this line could
�15
change and I feel that line could change.” So then I flipped those pages and I start writing it over
again.
HM: Copying it over.
S: Copying it over again. So then I would start from the first line of the very first verse and I write
straight down the page.
HM: Top to bottom.
S: Flip again, same process, and then I would read it over again and then I would say, “Okay,
the second verse could take, I need to change this word, maybe I need to change that concept,
as that's not really what I want to say,” you know? So then, “I think those last three lines could
strengthen.” I would write over that entire verse and chorus again. So by the time I'm done with
one song is like one note pad or one book for one song. But when I'm done, I don't need to
learn the song . . .
HM: Because you’ve looked . . .
S: Because that's how I learn. Even when I'm studying my academics and stuff, even though we
have notes, we have slides and that kinda thing, I have to . . .
HM: Write it.
S: . . . write it in my book. Look at my book. I have to write.
HM: There’s something about writing it down.
S: Yes, and then when I see it. . .
HM: that’s important.
S: . . . I remember it because I remember seeing it.
35:07
HM: But, and that’s your editing process. You’re editing, when you’re copying it over and over
like that.
S: Yeah.
HM: You’re actually in the process of revising and editing.
S: And tweaking. And a calypso is never done. It’s never done because there are times that you
are sometimes you on stage all right, so for “I Want to Know Yuh Before I Know Yuh” there is
this line where I say "I already take meh test." Before, it was “I already take meh test/I want to
know.” I had a line that was, “I going and take meh test,” and then another calypsonian said to
me, he said, “The song strong and it powerful and you giving this advice, so give this advice
with authority. You already take your test, you eh going and take it.”
�16
HM: That was more definite. That was more in keeping with the attitude of the song.
S: Exactly, exactly. So that song wasn't done until that night. And that night was the third week
into the tent, the season was almost done, you know?
HM: But that somebody, it’s great when somebody’s paying that close attention . . .
S: Yeah.
HM: . . . to notice. That wasn't (Bumped mic.) a big change, that was a small change.
S: Yes, it was a small change . . .
HM: But it was important.
S: But it was a very important change, you know? And “I Want to Know Yuh” is a song that I will
do everywhere that I go because I feel that is relevant all the time. Because we tend to always
want to have careless sex and you don’t just jump into things. There are so many diseases that
we have out there, some things we can't even pronounce, (Laughs.) you know? Why, why, why
chance going and get these diseases? Doh, live life, live life happily, live life safely.
HM: Well it's such a obvious thing in terms of common sense, but if that's all it took, there
wouldn't be a problem.
S: Exactly.
HM: So you’re presenting it in a way . . .
S: Exactly.
HM: . . . with humor and in rhyme . . .
S: Mm-hm.
HM: . . . that kind of lets people take a fresh look.
S: The humor, the humor in it was for them to listen because when they start to laugh they say,
“Whey she really saying?” and then they pay attention to that, that point in time. “Did she just
say that? She say that?”
HM: I saw some young people to the side of the stage, you saw them.
S: Yeah, yeah.
HM: They were listening.
S: Yeah.
HM: You know, they were in their teens probably some of them, you know.
�17
S: Like I went to . . .
HM: They were kind of giggling, like “Hee-hee-hee.” But I bet . . .
S: They were listening.
HM: . . . they were listening.
S: I went to Barbados for Carifesta with Malick group and we went to perform and I did that
song, I did that song in three different, at three different venues. And the Barbados people want
me to come back because now I did that song and I did "D’ Advice” and they were like, “We
could do some lectures with you in the schools to talk to our teenagers, you know?” And I was
like, “Yeah, that would be wonderful.” (Laughs.)
HM: Using it as education.
S: Yeah.
HM: I've heard other people say this, too, that calypso would be a great way to teach just about
any sub-, I mean you could teach so much just using calypso, you know.
S: Yeah.
HM: Any particular time of day or place in your home, or time of day? Or is it just any time of
day, any place, it just depends on where the song happens?
S: Any time, any place . . .
HM: You have to be ready.
S: . . . anyhow. Sometimes it may even be in the toilet. (Laughs.) Sometimes you may be in the
bathroom.
HM: You just have to do it.
S: And while, you just get something and it happens whenever it comes, it comes.
HM: You can't make a scheduled appointment for it.
S: Yeah, yeah. You can’t say, now like for me I can’t sit down and plan and say, “Okay, tent
opening tomorrow. I need to get a song. Oh gosh,” that is not going to happen. Like all now I
start getting, because for the past four-five years like since I started studying, right? I have been
having a lot of problems to just write.
HM: Have time and the space in your head probably.
S: Because normally when I'm doing something I am so focused on the something that I am
doing, that I really don’t have . . .
HM: The brain space.
�18
S: . . . for anything else, so I been really pushing it. I’ve been really, really, really pushing it,
doing this degree for the past four years, and now starting the master’s. Now the purpose that
I'm doing the master’s now is to get all the academics out of the way, so that I can concentrate
on what I really want to do with my life. (Laughs.) I’m just doing these things because I have to
have it.
HM: Just get it done.
S: Yeah, you know? So I just want to get this out of the way and I going to concentrate on my
life as a calypsonian, my life as an artiste, because I'm more than just a calypsonian, you know?
40:12
HM: Are you writing anything for the upcoming season right now?
S: Yes.
HM: Okay, so you’re in the process of trying to write . . .
S: Yes.
HM: . . . and think of things for what’s coming up.
S: I have the idea. I have a couple ideas, as a matter of fact, so I'm not sure which one I am
going to run with yet, whichever one comes first. So like I jotted down and said, “Okay, this year
this issue really bother me, and I'm going to do something about this.” And that is my number
one idea right here. And then there is something else that does just kind of get to me. It would
be good if I can write something about it and if it comes it come. And if it doesn't come, well.
HM: Then you’ll go with the other.
S: Yeah
HM: Well, that’s good. And do you have a deadline of when you’re trying to be (Subject laughs.),
I know, it’s coming, right? What’s your kind of target right now, to be, to have it.
S: Well, I heard that they have auditions for the tent coming up on the nineteenth of next month,
so that would mean that they would need CD's by next month end, so I should be ready by then.
That didn't happen last year, though. Last year I wasn't ready by then, well, not last year, for this
year. I wasn't ready by then. I was ready like two weeks before the tent opened.
HM: Does it help you having a deadline? Do deadlines help you?
S: No. No, they don't. They make me very on edge . . .
HM: And tense.
S: . . . very uncomfortable, and you wouldn’t, I would never give, I can't get the best writing out
of that.
�19
HM: So really you . . .
S: I just have to be . . .
HM: . . .doesn't help your writing.
S: No, I have to be, my best writing is done when I am most comfortable.
HM: When you’re kind of relaxed and not pressured, feeling the pressure.
S: And I'm most comfortable with a glass of alcohol. (Laughs.)
HM: And just relaxing.
S: Yeah, and relaxing, most comfortable.
HM: Just one more question then I’ll ask you if you can think of anything else yourself. Does
being a performer, because I have interviewed some writers who don’t perform, they’re just
writing for other people. Does being a performer influence what you write?
S: Yes, it does, because most of these topics is because I’m a performer I am able to do them.
If I wasn't performing I don't see anybody else doing it the way that I would have done it. And
even if I had given them the song to sing, it would not have been the same. So it does influence.
HM: Knowing that you can get up on stage and sing this song effects what you write . . .
S: Yes.
HM: . . . because you know you have an outlet.
S: And then most times too, I think you should hear this, because most times too when I write?
Sometimes before I have an entire verse and chorus, I know what I'm going to wear.
HM: You’re seeing that.
S: . . . yeah, so the song for instance “The Whip.” So like when I had the first verse and chorus
I was like, “Take that/Feel cat/You want to be every young girl’s nightmare/But come by me I
have cat to tear. I say, “Eh-heah. I wearing a leather mask and that eh gon’ be complete if I eh
have a leather outfit,” and then I turn around and said, “Mother-in-law? You could make one of
them cat-o-nine tails.” (Laughter.) So I envisioned the entire outfit.
HM: The whole outfit? Before the song was finished?
S: Before the song was finished, and then I wrote to suit the outfit. Another song I did that for as
well. There was another song that I have called "Check D Signs."
HM: I’ve seen that one, yeah.
S: “Check D Signs,” and for “Check D Signs” all of that season, I wore fittin’ with flare dress and
boots for the entire season, all different colors. And I was like, there's this little mischievous walk
�20
that I'm told, that I have been told that I do on stage. So while I'm writing, ‘cause sometimes
when I’m writing I walk all over the room . . .
HM: And you’re pacing around.
44:57
S: . . . and I perform . . .
HM: Like you’re on stage.
S: . . . saying the words. Yeah, yeah.
HM: Like your SpiceY persona.
S: And I remember I got to some part of the song and then I fling my dress, so I said, “Oh ho!”
So I had to get a dress that was flared down there.
HM: A dress that you can do that.
S: Yeah. And . . .
HM: That’s interesting . . .
S: . . . that was where that came in.
HM: . . . because, too, I haven’t really spoken to anybody, but that you, in a way, I mean it's not
separated, you’re writing for this artist. You’re the writer, I mean you are envisioning yourself as
the artist, but you have a stage persona and your presentation’s a certain way, so in a way, it’s
your, you’re writing for the performer that's on the stage. You’re envisioning, you’re both,
obviously, but . . .
S: That’s right.
HM: . . . but you’re envisioning her in your mind.
S: That’s right.
HM: So in a way it’s like, “Okay, this is something she would do.”
S: Mm-hm.
HM: I’ve noticed some artists, it seems strange to me, but they talk about themselves
in the third person, they’ll say . . .
S: “I’m SpiceY.”
HM: “And SpiceY gets what SpiceY wants.”
�21
S: Yeah. (Laughs.)
HM: You know, that kind of thing. And I’m, “That’s really odd. She’s talking about herself like
she’s a different person” . . .
S: Yeah.
HM: . . . but I understand how that could happen . . .
S: Mm-hm.
HM: . . . because in a way you divide, separate yourself a little bit . . .
S: Mm-hm.
H: . . . because you’re standing back watching yourself over here.
S: Sure, right.
HM: Well, that’s all I have and this has been a wonderful interview. Do you, anything else that
you would like to add that we didn’t get to, that you think would be important about your writing
or?
S: I don’t know. Oh, I have done, I have also done beside a couple of patriotic songs, like I have
one called "Tell Meh Whey Yuh From." That song is talking all about Trinidad and Tobago. So
for someone who doesn't know about Trinidad and Tobago this song would tell them all the
lovelies that you could get in Trinidad and Tobago. All the nice things, of course. (Laughs.) And I
did another patriotic song in 2012 when we celebrated our 50th Independence. They had, the
Ministry of Culture, had a competition for composers, just composers, so it could have been any
genre of music. And I did this piece, but I don't know what genre it would have fit in, but I wasn’t
able to perform the song because I got called out on a contract to go back out on the ship and I
gave it to a young woman called Lady Adanna to sing. And it made the top six finals for the
competition.
HM: Did well for her.
S: Yeah. And that too is a very beautiful song. I am in the process of getting someone else to
record it, to do over the song. You know, just change the fifty years to now, yeah, and I want to
put that song out. So I was just stressing there that I am not only a calypso writer.
HM: Well, and you did the song at Movietown Plaza the other night about “has the nation
changed or have we” . . .
S: “Missing the Nation.”
HM: That was, you know, that was making a comment, you know, you said you’re not political,
and that wasn’t, it was more about people, but . . .
S: Mm-hm.
HM: But it was also speaking about the country so that was another example.
�22
S: The state that the country . . .
HM: It was making a social commentary.
S: . . . was in. Yeah. And when you listen to that, now, that composition is not mine, very
important to know.
HM: Yeah, so you do some that aren’t yours.
S: Yes, very rare, but I do. That song was Sharlan Bailey, Shadow’s son.
HM: That was Shadow’s son wrote that.
S: Yeah. My influence on that song was because I was here at UTT. I think the classical music
because I just came out of doing the classical music and stuff? When he was recording, when
we were at the studio recording and I was putting on the background vocals. And I said to him, I
said, “Bailey, I hearing so much more than what this is.” And he said, “Yeah.” He said, “You
know what this would sound like if you put some opera inside of dey.” I said, “You would call
that an obligato. Calm yourself.” And I came back to school and I spoke to my voice lecturer.
And she said, “Why don't you talk to the young ladies in your year?” because I had some
awesome singers in my year group, right? And six of them, I spoke to them, and they came into
the studio and this LeAndra (Head) oh my goodness, put down this beautiful obligato in the
song. And then it ended up, now I did that song in the tent for the Carnival season. It was very
controversial in the sense that I didn’t get the background vocalists in the tent to sing it, because
they said it would make them hoarse so I had to work with my own background vocalists and
those girls worked with me for the entire season, yeah. And it was beautiful, but performing it
was a first time for me, performing somebody’s song, so it was how to put SpiceY . . .
50:18
H: How do you get your personality into that, right?
S: Yes, yes, so it took some getting used to . . .
HM: For you to think about that.
S: . . . but I got used to it before I hit the stage. So, I practiced a lot. I practiced a lot and I mean I
had to practice using the space and imagining the stage and what I had to wear, for it was
different from SpiceY persona as well. And it was hard, hard, hard, work.
HM: That was a challenge.
S: It was really hard work, but I pulled it off, because people saw a different side of SpiceY. And
they really enjoyed it, so whereas I thought I was put in a box and I couldn't move because
that's what they were expecting . . .
HM: Almost too narrow, right? Could be.
�23
S: Yeah. That's what people expecting, they expecting me to come with something humorous
and they expecting me to do something on relationships, or just do something humorous, that's
what they expecting. And when I came with that and the first night and I heard total silence, not
a pin, you didn’t even hear a pin drop at the cinema, and it’s when I was finished and the loud
uproar, I was like, "Oh my God." My heart just melted.
HM: I bet.
S: I was like, “Thank you, thank you, thank you, Father.” But . . .
HM: Well that’s the challenge for an artist, is to go outside of what they’ve done in the past . . .
S: But . . .
HM: and do something new.
S: . . . I think that also defines an artist, because if you could only be you, right? Now being you
is not something bad, but you are an artist, so because you are an artist you’re supposed to be
able to . . .
HM: Be doing something . . .
S: . . . maneuver.
HM: . . . creative and new. Fresh.
S: You’re supposed to be able to . . .
HM: Bring in new ideas.
S: Yeah, and if somebody just gives you something to do, you supposed to be able to jump out
the box at any point in time, you know? So, and that is how I see writing, composing as, you
should be able to do that.
HM: Have that freedom
S: To just jump out of the box. ‘Cause I attempted a rock & roll (Laughs.) while I was out there
on the ship. And I came back home and sing it for Bailey. And he was like, “Yeah, you write that,
eh?” and I said, “Yeah.” He said “Alright.” I said, “Wha’ happen? You don't like it?” He said, “It’s
okay.” (Laughter.) But you have to start from somewhere.
HM: You have to have the freedom to try.
S: So, exactly. And the only how you’ll be able to do that is if you listen to other people’s music.
So you can't just sit down and say, “I am the best and there is nothing better than me.”
HM: I don’t need to change.
S: And, “I don't need to hear anybody else,” because that eh good. Then you won’t get
anywhere. The only how you will be able to get better as a composer, better as a performer, is if
�24
you know what came before you. You know, where you want to go and you know what you want
to do, so that means you have to do some history, right? So you have to do some research.
HM: You have to do, and that’s what you’re doing now.
S: And because it's music, you have to do a lot of listening, right?
HM: A lot. You’ve gotta, you can’t just listen to the same things forever.
S: You can't be bias, you can't be bias with music. Because music is not bias. Music is for
everybody. (Laughs.)
HM: It is. Well, thanks very much. I’ve really . . .
S: Thank you very much.
HM: I’ve really enjoyed it and I’ve enjoyed getting to know you better through the interview.
S: Thank you. Thank you.
(Edit.)
End of interview
�
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
J. Hunter Moore
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
SpiceY (Tammico Moore)
Location
The location of the interview
National Academy for the Performing Arts (NAPA), Port of Spain, Trinidad and Tobago
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
53:58
Time Summary
A summary of an interview given for different time stamps throughout the interview
Subject sings: 43:40
---------------------------------------
Notes about interview: the final (approx.) 30 seconds of the interview was on an unrelated topic and has not been included
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
SpiceY interview
Description
An account of the resource
Actual name: Tammico Moore
Date of birth: May 17, 1976
Place of birth: San Fernando, Trinidad and Tobago
Awards (as of March 2018): Calypso Monarch semi-finals, 2008, 2018, Arouca Calypso Monarch, 2015, Chaguanas Calypso Monarch, 2009, Best Musical Director-Best Village competition, 2018
Best songs/best-known songs: “Man in Dat,” “The Whip”
---------------------------------------
Individuals heard during interview:
S: SpiceY
HM: Hunter Moore
---------------------------------------
Trinidad and Tobago terms and expressions as used in the interview:
APA: Academy for the Performing Arts, a school of the University of Trinidad and Tobago
Ah: I, I’m, or as an interjection: “Ah!”
Dey: there
Doh: don’t
Eh: ain’t, can also add emphasis at the end of a phrase
In two twos: very quickly, in no time at all
Meh: my
NAPA: National Academy for the Performing Arts, Port of Spain, Trinidad and Tobago
Nuh: you know
UTT: University of Trinidad and Tobago
Whey: what, where
Yuh: you, you’re
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-10-23
-
https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/40461/archive/files/62cd12be07cd85423e0420468bf2d964.jpg?Expires=1712793600&Signature=PLiF47POd8%7EIcGbERZCHTd0kL4W7d%7Eq5eHKZpB7IrgPyYDqCYZxx4z-HO2Nykz-d%7E-VrGy2QDXkeCvZicvTT4Fmsgx374wRezQT-nt50heo1SaIeVumIzxOV8V4CzLurlb%7EkwNw4cj7alvfcmlytxDGBJ-k2U1xvPpiVUVb8gXmq7z2MKHxKgpHZTawKsJx7yTJE6B9vTDXJCcqNxHybC%7EVoYYG3DKl658Q0A9qwHnjR0A7dgw0Mm6aheq0KEpdSmUlLn-o6qg6RZOkARPyDYMapMzDj839rLdcxIXKsS1rLhlVz3RwYcvqlmWJ1AiYrCcZYqomiSkS1oLsx2CIhMA__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM
56dc5edeb24940b83fba0b0ce747a31e
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Surpriser, 2018
https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/40461/archive/files/fb865483b8f773ac1df152b9b9467091.mp3?Expires=1712793600&Signature=N%7E0W5h-J%7EKykl8CIWohykeL7c-v63rlwnEWdnysdXp4fzxrq-JptyYqsVVxX1mEhgKeCvinquHnPVSyw759yZZX9KymdjdP6HAmBLCroXQqSD61yBCImk-O7J8ON6G8som5EYBAlai87dYcvNthCZjfZOIIDRk7mRd0wxpoSbmABjaNdXQlGdeFrI3GYZVpjMdqy0x1HoTG44QtfPg2MyL5nf7KQE9uLxYVWNhFs6j2tPc4LEfk-vE07PWCy9GC-Jmgse5GTcmecK0WfqRIuV-dT5jTzXuBFc%7E8w59qYRUjys9nj2-CjRY35p84tcz9uBujpdvH7o7mDqW%7Ea67Devw__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM
bba57d23da156dd676ebdd8a24703ab1
https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/40461/archive/files/07cce5a87936dd059cf9194eb9a2d121.pdf?Expires=1712793600&Signature=Wep5wkiYInxjCx0mETEEIk1D-dkLS55fWC6uqZJXWmPzlI8tCm4BA7pEstOTN%7Ef-pfIkqUwk42OqgI53eZ2ri2kyBnb-KkSWk8jBUIrUbYK8viYH-UmPkyDF8dgtHUIh0rxBgO63VtoAYP00lBjoqFzl6U3B-e6KGGqZx--rl0NDGlRUbd6b%7EooLaf4t0RGry52P0frojqGImzhoMkfiphHVCC780qTw%7EvO7-6zlLSY6uFgaBURJ1-h%7Eg2RshDZHh5Ue4wTm3iCjBxp1aRhPgbsbkbCXXe3yOdVhBvzw4jScPQ7e1H8Ic47O%7E0PFMgqmPbk-2M0leNZx8pf-lehrgQ__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM
4b56e36dbe899023899b0beb84390322
PDF Text
Text
Interview subject: Surpriser
Interviewer: J. Hunter Moore
Date: October 13, 2017
Location of interview: Home of Carmsen Merrique, Surpriser’s daughter, Mount Lambert,
Trinidad and Tobago
Actual name: Clevin Romero
Other sobriquets/nicknames: D. Surpriser, Mighty Surpriser, Scorpion (early)
Date of birth: February 24, 1931
Place of birth: Gran Lagun community, Mayaro, Trinidad and Tobago
Awards (as of March 2018): South Calypso King, 1971, National Calypso King Semi-Finals,
1970, 1971, Chaguanas Calypso King, four years (beginning in 1960’s), Couva Calypso King,
three years
Best songs/best-known songs: “Old Age is a Disaster,” “De Lazy Villager,” “Leave D Salt”
--------------------------------------Individuals heard during the interview:
S: Surpriser
HM: Hunter Moore
CM: Carmsen Merrique (Surpriser’s daughter)
OM: Ozy Merrique (Supriser’s grandson)
RT: Ruth Telfer, a friend
ER: Elizabeth Ryan, a friend
-------------------------------------Trinidad and Tobago terms and expressions as used in the interview:
Ah: I, I’m, a, or as an interjection: “ah!”
Dey: they
Doh: don’t
Eh: ain’t
�2
Extempo: a form of calypso in which two singers take turns insulting each other via
extemporized verse set to an established melody, known traditionally as picong or “war”
Mihself: myself
TUCO: Trinbago Unified Calypsonians’ Organisation, promotes calypso and calypsonians
------------------------------Subject sings: 7:49, 9:50, 17:07, 24:50, 33:48
-----------------------------Notes about interview: the interview took place on an outside porch. A neighbor’s electric drill is
heard intermittently. Two minutes (approx.) near the end of the recording, during which sound
equipment was being set up, has not been included. As of December 1, 2017, Surpriser was
said to be the oldest performing calypsonian in Trinidad and Tobago
The lyric for “Old Age is a Disaster” matches the version that is played during the interview, but
the dialect I use in the transcription is taken from Surpriser’s handwritten lyric of the song.
Surpriser presented me with a handwritten lyric and said that he knew the standard spelling but
had intentionally used creole for his handwritten version.
-----------------------------Interview:
S: “Old Age is a Disaster,” (Laughter.) I have it there, “Old Age is a Disaster,” and I have been
back, it’s why I get back in the calypso thing, and why I get back in the calypso tents, you know.
RT: (Several missing words.)
ER: Ah. Yeah.
S: You know. I sang with, two years with Kitchener, then I went, that is 2000, 2001. I didn’t sing
‘2, 2003 I went to Yangatang, ‘4, Spektakula, but that is the year they close down.
ER: Okay.
S: ‘5 and ’6 I went to Chaguanas Central. And I in this Karavan from ‘7 till now.
(An electric drill starts, reappears) intermittently.)
RT: But you know, I’m sorry, I must have seen you then in Kitchener’s tent, or Spektakula . . .
S: That would have been 2000.
RT: . . . because I always went there.
S: In 2000.
�3
RT: (Laughs.)
CM: Yes. She’s been here a long time.
RT: Yeah. I’ve been living here since ’79 and we used to be always in Spectakula, Kingdom of
the Wizards . . .
S: Oh, well. Well. Ah. Yeah.
RT: (Several missing words.) Kitchener’s tent. Yeah. Oh yeah.
S: Mm-hm. Alright. Well.
RT: And that’s where I’ve seen you perform.
S: Yes. Yes. Yes. And from twenty-oh-seven I started with Spektak, I mean Kaiso Karavan.
CM: He ready for you now. Are you ready Hunter?
HM: Yeah. I was. Now, if I, you don’t mind me asking you again, hah, I just want to make,
I’m clear your, that your full name, is it Clevin?
S: C-l-e-v-i-n. Clevin. Yes.
HM: Clevin Romero
S: Romero, yeah.
HM: You were born February 24.
S: 24. Yes.
HM: 1931?
S: Yes.
HM: And is it Mayaro?
S: Well, well, let’s . . .
CM: Guayaguayare.
OM: Mayaro
CM: Mayaro
HM: How do you spell Mayaro, Mayaro?
CM: M-a-y
�4
HM: M-a-y
S: a-r-o. Yeah.
CM: a-r-o
S: Mm-hm.
OM: We just say Mayaro.
HM: Mayaro.
C: Mayaro
HM: We’re the same way in Tennessee.
S: No, wait, let me say this, Jude.
CM: Ah?
S: Let me just say, Gran, Gran Lagun village, Mayaro, is where I was born.
CM: Gran, oh. Ah.
S: Gran Lagun village.
CM: Gran Lagun village, Mayaro.
S: G-r-a-n-d. (sic.) Gran Lagun
HM: Gran Lagun.
CM: Yes.
S: Yes. Village. Mayoro.
HM: Like Spanish. Like great lake.
S: Mm-hm.
HM: Gran Lagun.
CM: Yeah. (Laughs.)
S: Yeah.
HM: I was just enjoying hearing what you were saying, but maybe I should get you to say it
again for the recording. You said you were two times national champion?
S: Nah, nah.
�5
CM: No.
HM: Two times.
S: Semi-finalist.
HM: Semi-finalist. In the national competition.
S: Yes. Two years semi-final. And I made the south monarchy in 1971.
HM: 1971. Good. Just. Those are just kind of some basic things.
RT: South Monarch in 1971.
S: ’71.
HM: So I didn’t realize that you could just be the South Monarch, but I know that was true.
RT: You have to do that to win that.
HM: Yeah. You have to win that first, before you, then to go to the national?
S: Yeah, but.
Others: No, no.
HM: No?
OM: Each, each village or each town can have their own monarch, you know, so southeast
would be.
S: Yes. Yes. Yes.
CM: They still do.
OM: They still have . . .
CM: They still have a San Fernando calypso crown.
HM: A crown for San Fernando. I’m really concerned this drill over here . . .
CM: Oh God. Yes. Yes. Yes.
Others: (Several missing words.)
HM: . . . that we can hear. Maybe if I hold it really close.
S: Central. I did four years in Chaguanas as a monarch and three years in Couva.
HM: In Couva. And you were the monarch in those places?
�6
S: Yes. And. But I was running a calypso tent there, you know?
HM: So, you were running the tent.
S: Yes. I was running. Yes. Yes.
HM: Most of my questions, and I’ll tell you a little bit more about myself when we’re done, but
I’m a musician and songwriter from Tennessee.
S: Mm. Okay.
HM: And so I’m particularly interested in how composers of calypso write . . .
S: Mm-hm.
HM: . . . calypso, to compare it to . . .
S: I know.
HM: . . . my understanding, how we do things. You know?
S: Yes, I, I understand this.
HM: When did you start writing calypsos, at what age?
S: From school.
HM: From school? How old do you think you were?
CM: (Several missing words.)
S: Let me look at it, ten-twelve years old.
HM: Ten or twelve years old.
S: Mm-hm.
HM: And did, have you ever composed other kinds of music or only calypso?
S: No, only calypso, only calypso throughout.
HM: And so, what I always like to ask is, how do you know it’s calypso? What makes it calypso
for you?
4:49
S: Oh, that is quite, that is nice. Now, as I mentioned a while ago, I were motherless at the age
of nine. And a neighbor was taking care of us. The neighbor’s husband was working in the oil
field in Guayaguayare. Well, he have money, so he could buy a gramophone.
�7
Other: (Laughs.)
S: He bought a gramophone and with it, calypso music. And he gave me the full authority to
use, you know.
HM: To use it.
S: Yes, man, I started playing only this calypso song, this old days of Radio, King Radio and all
those fellas.
HM: So, the older.
S: And “Take me, take me, I’m feeling lonely, take me back to Los Iros.” And all these kind of
songs, you know? And I believe that is what really brought in this calypso thing in me.
HM: What were some of the artists that you were listening to? King Radio. Who else? That you
remember from your being young?
S: Yes. Lord Iere. Radio, we had, and also them, boy, let me see, we had all those old fellas,
even some Growling Tiger. Yes, and this other one (three missing syllables.)
CM: Atilla the Hun.
S: Atilla. No, no, but I know Atilla, but . . .
HM: Atilla? These were recordings you had that you had and . . .
S: Yes, yes.
HM: . . . used to play on the gramophone.
S: I knew. I knew Atilla. Yeah.
Others: (Several missing words.) Spoiler.
S: Tiger, Lion, Growling Tiger, Roaring Lion. All those fellas. I known them.
Others: (Several missing words.)
HM: So you knew these records really well. Because you could play them on the gramophone.
S: Yes, I could play them on the gramophone.
HM: And so you were, were you aspiring to write, though? So you sort of wanted to do that
yourself?
S: Yes. Yes.
HM: You heard those songs, you started writing some like that.
�8
S: Yes. I started writing. I, the first calypso I wrote it was, there was a school outing. And there’s
a chap called Carl Frontin. I couldn’t go. Me father couldn’t afford to send me. But those fellas
went into a train, on the train, going somewhere. And this fella came and excreted on himself in
the train. And well, when I went to school they just give me the little thing, the little joke, and
thing what happened to Carl Frontin, what had . . . (Laughs.)
Others: (Laughter.)
HM: But what happened on the train? I didn’t understand.
S: Yeah, well . . .
CM: Oh (Laughs.)
S: . . . he messed on himself. (Laughs.)
HM: Ah, okay, okay.
Other: Oh.
HM: So . . .
S: You know?
HM: Yeah.
S: So, well, I can’t remember the song really, but I remember the chorus.
S: (Sings.) Well, change your voices and sing again, Carl Frontin shit on the railway train.
(Laughs.)
HM: So, it became a song. Yeah. Now, did you write that, or that was just something . . .
S: (Speaks.) I write about three verses. That was the chorus.
HM: That was the chorus. Was that the first song that you remember, that you wrote?
S: It, yes, that is the first song I really write.
HM: That’s a great story.
S: While discussing this with me late schoolmates, this principal, he was watching. And he get
up, make a little spin around, and come behind our backs. And I just see the hand come down
and take up the paper. (Laughs.) When he read it, he gone to the desk and he press the silent
bell and he put me on the stage to sing it. (Laughs.)
HM: So, he wanted you to sing it. That’s great. So, you didn’t get in trouble.
S: No, no, no, no, no. He put me on the stage to sing it.
HM: So, you became a performer.
�9
S: Yeah, well.
HM: (Laughs.)
S: From that I started singing. I started writing me little songs and so on. When Edric Connor,
now I used to call mihself “The Scorpion.”
HM: That was your first name, was Scorpion?
S: Yes, my first name, The Scorpion, but I get to know Superior and I like that name, but he
done had it. Superior had it already I can’t get it from him. But it happened that Edric Connor
after being away from Mayaro for about twenty or something years, he was coming back to act
in a picture called “Fire Down Below” (a few missing words) in Mayaro (two missing syllables).
And they asked me to do something to welcome him back. And I did. I’ll deliver the verse and
the chorus.
9:50
S: (Sings.): Ahh, Edric Connor, that baritone singer, of course we are more than glad, as to
welcome you back home in Trinidad.
S: (Speaks.) Right? And that day was a Sunday morning. Went and we stopped there. They
called me. And a old truck was the stage. (Laughs.) My old truck. (Laughs.) And I gone up there,
man, and I sing. And when, the people, well, they applaud. Man, I make a whole, I make a mess
there, man. Yeah. (Laughs.)
HM: It scared you. (Laughs.)
S: Sure. When I come down the stage oh they lift me up they shake me hand. And everybody,
“My Clevin, Clevin, boy, you really surprise me today, buddy. You really surprise me.” I studyin’
now Superior, look, I get Surpriser and I get mihself. (Laughs.)
HM: That’s where Surpriser came from.
S: That’s where I get that name. I got that name just by that.
Other: Oh.
HM: That’s wonderful. That’s wonderful.
S: Yeah.
HM: Well, I was going to say, too, that you’ve only composed calypso. But when I said how do
you know it’s calypso, it’s because you were listening to calypso.
S: Oh, yes. Yes.
HM: You were listening to these records . . .
�10
S: Yes, yes. Records.
HM: . . . so that’s how you knew it was calypso. Because you were writing it in the same
tradition as the records you were listening to.
S: Yes. Yes. Yes.
HM: Have you been influenced by any other kind of music?
S: Ah, no, no. Not at all.
HM: Just calypso?
S: Well, I mean we had bongo, the bongo music, and so on and would even stick, the kalenda
music and so on.
HM: Kalenda music.
S: Mm-hm. I had little ideas about those songs. But calypso was my, is best thing I know. And
up to this point in time, calypso is always on me mind. I sleep and wakin’ calypso. I’m telling you
this.
HM: You’re still thinking about it.
S: Yes. Nothing gets me vexed. I’m always a pleasing person. I always have something
humming in me mind.
HM: In your mind. And in . . .
S: I get up from my bed in the morning, I humming a calypso.
HM: So, you’re still, you’re still writing in your mind. I mean you’re still hearing ideas, music and
words.
S: Yes, a little. I’ll show you something. I have a song that I just write. I’ll show you. Yes. And
when I dead, I done. (Laughs.)
Others: (Laughter.)
HM: Yeah. Yeah, that’s good.
S: Four verses and chorus.
HM: Good. I want to hear that.
S: Yeah.
HM: Where do you find your ideas? Do you get them from the news? Do you get them from
what people say?
�11
S. Yes. But I love humor.
HM: You what?
S: Humor.
HM: Human. Humor.
S: Yes. Yes. Humor. I love humor. And I just make up me own humorous. Right? As for
instance, I have, I do “Old Age is a Disaster,” I said. I did the, I do one called “The World Cup
Spray.” You probably wonder what I mean by that. Well, it mihself and me lady, we were
watching a football game, you know? And, a World Cup game, in fact, competition. And one of
the fellas kicked another one, alright? And they started rolling on the ground. And a man come
out, a doctor, or someone who he is, with a spray and he sprayed the player and as the play-the
man he jumped up and started kicking again. Me madam tell me she want me to get, get some
of that. (Laughs.)
Others: (Laughter.)
HM: She wanted some of that same stuff?
S: For me! (Laughs.)
Others: (Laughter.)
HM: For you. (Laughs.) So that was where the song came from.
S: Yes. I have the song there.
HM: You wrote a song about that.
S: Yeah. Look at this here. Look at this here. Yes, I have, I ain’t minding nothing what I cannot
sell. I am not minding nothing what I cannot sell.
CM: (To HM) (Missing words) I’m wondering, you understand that?
HM: That I cannot sell, but I didn’t hear the first part.
CM: Okay. Well it’s like I am not going to take care of anything that I cannot sell.
S: Yeah.
HM: Like a song. Meaning . . .
CM: So, minding, minding is like taking care of.
S: Yeah.
HM: Meaning like to sell the song commercially, or?
CM: No, like, well, when you hear the song you’ll know.
�12
OM: You’ll understand when you hear the song.
CM: When you hear the song you will know what he talking about.
S: (Laughs.) You know.
HM: Okay, okay. ‘Cause I want to hear, to hear that song.
S: (Laughs.) You know.
HM: ‘Cause I was just gonna say, you just answered my next question, which is, is there a
particular example of where you find your ideas? And you’ve already given me two, with the
World Cup song . . .
S: Yes. Yes.
HM: . . . and even on the train. You know, when you were starting.
S: Yes. Yes.
HM: That, you’re getting, A lot of times it’s from something you’re seeing right . . .
S: Yes. I know.
HM: . . . at the moment. And it immediately goes into a song for you.
S: Yes, yes, of course.
14:58
S: You see there is something we call open topics. Something happen. You’ll find everybody
doing something, writing something about it.
HM: About that.
S: You know? But I don’t think, I does read (a few missing syllables). I’m not writing anything or
saying that, because I know somebody . . .
HM: Somebody else.
S: . . . else and they might find better, more favor than . . .
HM: There might be twenty calypsos on that . . .
S: Yes.
HM: . . . on that same topic.
�13
S: (Laughs.) Yes. Yes, you know? So, I look for the humorous side, that little kind of humor, and
thing, and so on.
HM: Be a little different.
S: Yes.
HM: I think that’s smart from a business point of view because you have the only one.
S: Yes.
HM: You know, instead of one of ten, one of twenty, whatever.
S: Mm-hm. Yeah.
HM: Are there any, in your songs, are there any particular themes over time that you are more
attracted to, certain topics, social, political, certain themes in your music that . . .
S: No. Mm-mm.
HM: . . . you, you looking back you can see?
S: No. The political thing. I don’t want no part of that at all. I try me best to keep myself away
from the politics. Because I just believe I am a calypsonian. I want to get everybody to love me.
HM: You want, you want, you don’t want to divide your audience.
S: (Laughs.) Not at all. Not at all. I leave the people and the politics right there. I am not writing.
HM: So, you think it’s, you would look at your, all the songs you’ve written and kind of generally
say they are more about current events, something . . .
S: Em. (Hesistant.)
HM: . . . not, not in the news, but just things that happen to you. You see those things.
S: Yeah. Yes, yes. Let me see if I could. Ah alright, as, the old, not, no, there’s a calypso I sang
about, what’s that next song again, gal?
CM: What?
S: She hold up the rubbish truck.
CM: Oh.
OM: (One or two missing words.)
S: She hold up the rubbish truck, and yes and . . .
CM: (Two or three missing words.)
�14
S: (Sings): Anytime the government says cleanup. (Speaks.) “Cleanup Campaign” I call that
song. Alright? They had something, the government had something, to, a cleanup exercise
program. And I went with them and I leave my wife and I ask her to clean around me place and
when I came back home all me furniture’s gone. (Laughs.)
HM: Did a little more than you thought. More than you meant. Yeah. So, you wrote a song . . .
S: (Laughs.)
HM: . . . about that.
S: Yes, yes. All me furniture. She leave me with an empty house. But it’s (missing word) the
furniture what I had. It’s what I had.
CM: It’s more like humor. Humor. Wit. Humor. And a little risqué too. That’s what it is.
HM: But it’s more about everyday. More about everyday things. Rather than big . . .
S: Yes. Of course.
HM: . . . news items. That occur to you.
S: Yes.
RT: And that’s a category in calypso too. Humorous calypso. Sometimes in the competitions.
There’s actually a category.
HM: There’s actually a category. For . . .
S: Mm-hm.
HM: Did you ever enter the humorous category?
S: Yes. But I didn’t win. What it was about four years ago.
HM: Four years ago. So, you were competing as long, as recently as four years ago.
S: Mm-hm. Yes. About four years ago. Yeah.
HM: How are you influenced by your community? Meaning the people that you know, the people
in your neighborhood. The people in your town. Wherever you, how are you influenced by
them?
S: Yes. Yeah.
HM: How do they influence you?
S: Anywhere, at least, I don’t really walk the street and nobody ain’t know me. (Laughs.) They
call me from a distance.
HM: They all know you.
�15
S: (Laughs.) They all know me. They all know me.
HM: So, what they say to you, what you know about them, what issues, what concerns there,
they may have also affect you?
S: I wouldn’t say.
HM: No?
S: No.
HM: But so, do they, but does your community affect your songs, in other words do the people,
what’s important in your neighborhood, do they influence your songs?
CM: No.
HM: And not really?
S: Well, what do I want to say about this? I want to say yes. They, yes, yes.
C: Also?
S: Yes. Yes.
HM: How do, how do they influence you? In what you write?
S: By, you see, they always. When they see me, they are very, they feel very appreciative, and
they will be giving me, telling me, what about that song. You understand what I’m saying?
HM: They’re encouraging you.
S: They’re encouraging me. Yes. Yes. Yes.
HM: That helps you keep going.
S: Ah-hah. (Agrees.)
HM: Makes you feel appreciated.
S: Yeah.
20:01
HM: That you have a place in the community.
S: Surely. Surely. Surely.
HM: That you are recognized as a . . .
�16
S: Surely. Surely.
HM: . . . calypsonian.
S: Oh. Surely. Surely.
HM: And that’s an important thing in this country.
S: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yes, I have a lot of, where they honored me. I’ve been honored. (Wind
noise.) I have a lot of, yes, what do you call those, plaques, and . . .
CM: Plaques.
S: . . . so on. I have a lot of that.
HM: He’s received plaques and things.
S: Yeah.
HM: You’ve got them on your wall?
S: Yes! Yes!
CM: Some. (Laughs.)
S: Down in Guayaguyare.
HM: You should or give them to Carmsen to put up.
CM: I have one.
S: Yeah. I have, I was given,
CM: I have one.
S: . . . I have a painting.
CM: Oh, alright. That they gave you.
S: A big painting. A portrait of me. That some, I was honored by the . . .
CM: TUCO.
S: The, yeah.
HM: TUCO.
S: Yeah. I’m getting there, TUCO, the people who do the . . .
CM: Humorous?
�17
S: Not the humorous. Them, boy. The picong business now.
CM: Oh hoh. Extempo?
RT: Extempo. Yeah.
S: Yes.
HM: The extempo.
RT: You did the extempo, too?
S: Yes, I was honored by the extempo section I was.
HM: You were honored by the extempo section.
S: Yes. Yes.
HM: Yeah. So that’s good to know, too. That you do extempo also.
S: Mm-hm.
RT: That’s such an art form.
CM: When we grew up you did extempo?
S: Yes.
CM: I didn’t know that.
S: But not now again. The brain’s not working for all that. (Laughs.)
HM: (To CM) What did you just ask?
CM: I asked him if he, if he ever did extempo and he said yes, but he couldn’t do that now
because his brain would not be . . .
S: Mm-hm, mm-hm.
HM: You have to be really quick to do that.
S: Yes, you have to be very quick, yes. But I did extempo a lot. I did a lot of extempo.
HM: I really appreciate that form.
S: Yes. Yes.
HM: These, the second section of questions I have, besides just a couple of wrap-up questions
is sort of more practical. Like, what instrument do you play?
�18
S: None.
HM: None. You just do it all. Without.
S: Nothing. I’ll show you. (Surpriser demonstrates using his hand on the table to make a
syncopated rhythm by alternating between the heel of his hand, his thumb, and his knuckles.)
HM: Rhythm. Just doing some rhythm.
S: This is, this is what I work with. This is what I work with. (Shows me his hand.)
HM: But when you compose your melody it’s all in your head, or you’re singing to yourself, or
whistle, or what do you do?
S: Yes. Yes, well, now you will see, when you think about a song. You have to get the melody.
You, you fix the chorus.
HM: The chorus first.
S: Yes, you fix your chorus and that, this you get your beat from that.
HM: That gives you your beat.
S: And you get a melody, for the, for the verses.
HM: So, you get your chorus set.
S: Correct.
HM: All the words done, too.
S: Yes.
HM: So, the chorus is finished and then you work backwards, really.
S: Yes. Yes. Yes. Because if you only do the verses first, you mightn’t be able to get . . .
HM: Get there.
S: . . . the chorus. So, you want to, you have to get the chorus first.
HM: That’s the most important part. It has to work first . . .
S: Yes. Of course it is.
HM: . . . or it’s just a waste of time.
S: Yes. Yes.
HM: But then if it’s good that inspires you then to finish the rest.
�19
S: Yes. To finish the rest.
HM: You’ve sort of got some forward momentum
S: Right. Exactly so. Exactly so. Mm-hm.
HM: That’s really good.
S: Yeah.
HM: So I that was going to say, how you start. So, do you, when you do, when an Idea starts for
you is it words and the mu-, just the idea and the music or just the words.
S: And.
HM: What works. How does that happen for you?
S: You start with the words, with the . . .
HM: The idea?
S: As I said, the music for the chorus.
HM: The music comes first for the chorus?
S: For the chorus, yes. And with that you could get the music for the verse. You know? You get
the music for the verse.
HM: So you have all the music finished first, or . . .?
S: Yes. Well.
HM: You’re finishing the chorus first.
S: Chorus and first verse, and you would mold the verses, you follow your verses, sure, until
you’ve made the fourth.
HM: So, the chorus.
S: Mm-hm.
HM: Then the first verse.
S: Yes.
HM: And then the other verses.
S: And the other verses. Yes. Yes. And you could have change chorus in between there.
HM: You might change it.
�20
S: You could change your chorus, but not the, the lyrics, not the melody.
OM: The lyrics.
HM: Keeping the melody the same but you might change the lyrics.
S: Yeah.
HM: But I was kind of going back. When you have your first idea for one of these songs, like the
World Cup Spray song, do you, did you, just take those words and then add a melody to that, or
did it all come at once, the world cup spray and the . . .
S: Mm-hm.
HM: . . .melody you sang to it, all at once?
24:47
S: Mm-hm. Yeah. Well, let me show you for example. When that idea came to me, I said well
the lady sent me to get, right? So, she tell me, (Sings.) Get some, Surpriser. (Speaks.) Right?
HM: So that was maybe the first thing?
S: That is the correct. (Sings.) Get some, Surpriser. (Speaks.) Then I start the line, now that is
the chorus, the chorus line there. I got the chorus line. (Sings and taps rhythm on table.) Well, I
was watching a World Cup game on me television, that how me and me dame, gon’ end up in
contention. (Speaks.) You know what I mean? So, then I use the (Sings.) Get some, Surpriser.
HM: And then you were ready to write the rest of the chorus . . .
S: (Whispers.) Oh, yes. Oh, yes.
HM: . . . at that point because you have the whole story.
S: Exactly. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.
HM: That’s great. That’s wonderful. Because in my experience when I’m writing if I don’t have
some words, a phrase, and some music, it doesn’t stick. I have to have . . .
S: Mm-hm
HM: . . . some of both
S: Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.
HM: But then I get excited and it gets me going to finish . . .
S: Mm-hm.
�21
HM: . . . the rest.
S: You finish it. Yes. Of course. Of course. Of course. Of course.
HM: Do you write anything down before you’re finished, do you write down the chorus? Or do
you just get it all finished in your head before you write it down?
S: Mm, I used to do that long ago, but not now. (Laughs.)
HM: When you started out you were just writing it in your head.
S: I write me song, when I finished the whole song, then I write it.
HM: Then you write it down.
S: But now . . . (Laughs.)
HM: But now you have to get it down while you’re thinking about it, right?
S: I have to write it.
HM: Because you probably weren’t recording anything at that point . . .
S: Ah-hah, Ah-ah (Agrees.)
HM: . . . until later. You were just maybe just writing the words down.
S. Yeah.
HM: Did you have any way to record the melody so you wouldn’t forget it?
S: Nothing.
HM: Yeah. You just had to remember it.
S: I had to remember. I had to remember. Yes.
HM: I would have to practice. (Laughs.)
S: Now I had a fellow they called the Spitfire, deceased. He was my mentor, really.
HM: Spitfire was your mentor.
S: Yes, and he’s the fella who taught me. You know, when I write me song and thing he would
sit down with me and tell me: “You see this? Take out this and you will put that there and so on.”
HM: So he was giving you guidance. He was teaching. A veteran.
S: Guidance and, yeah. and something he left with me. When you write a song. That what you
write is only the skeleton of the song. Okay? Then after you finish write the song and everything,
you start to take out and put on, now you putting the flesh on the song.
�22
HM: You put on, what was the last word? You put on the . . .
CM: The flesh.
S: You’re putting the flesh.
HM: So you have the bones. But then you have to put the rest of it.
S: Yes. Yes. You’re putting the flesh on all the songs. You know.
HM: Yeah, but you go ahead and lay out the whole structure.
S: Yes, the whole structure. Now you start taking, you’re taking out and listening, that kind of
thing. You move it and you (missing word) it and you, if you catch yourself, if you really catch
yourself, you wouldn’t stop, you know. (Laughs.) You say “well, that good now, that good now, I
think that good now.”
HM: But you have to do that all, you were doing that all in your head, it wasn’t, you weren’t on
paper, crossing words out.
Surpriser: No, no, no, no. And I write with lead pencil.
HM: Oh, you did use to write down with pencil, so you could erase and change.
S: I erase all the time. I didn’t write with pen. I write with a pencil throughout.
HM: So you could change easily.
S: Yes. Yes.
HM: Yeah. Somebody said one time that writing is mainly rewriting. So, it’s, I mean, it’s writing
but then going back and making adjustments, refining.
S: Yes. Well, that is it. You refine it.
HM: Making it better, improving it.
S: Yes, yes.
HM: So, you better have an eraser.
S: Mm-hm, Mm-hm.
HM: I’m just seeing here. We’re answering intuitively my questions so, which is wonderful. Did
being a performer, ‘cause I talked to some composers who don’t perform, they only write and
they give their music to other people to perform.
S: Mm-hm.
�23
HM: Does being a performer, or did being a performer affect your writing, did it, was there any
effect that that had, knowing that you were writing for yourself, versus if you were writing for
someone else, how did being a performer and a writer affect your writing?
S: Mm-hm.
HM: Is there, was there any difference you can see, that being, performing your own songs
might have made?
S: Yeah, well. The answer to this. Go ahead, say that again I may ask?.
HM: How did performing affect your composing?
S: Mm-hm. Well, come with the rest. Say if I was writing for someone?
HM: Versus if you were writing for someone.
S: For someone. But I use the same thing. I use the same thing.
HM: The same approach? So, maybe it didn’t affect it at all.
S: Yes, it’s the same approach. I wouldn’t give you something I wouldn’t like to hear.
HM: You wouldn’t sing, so . . .
S: Yeah. Right.
HM: In other words, you wouldn’t write for someone else something that you wouldn’t feel good
singing on stage yourself.
S: Uh-uh, uh-uh. I want to sit down and listen to it. (Laughs.)
29:56
HM: So, in a sense you are writing for yourself. Whether someone else sings it or not, you’re still
writing it for yourself.
S: Right, right, right, right. Yes, of course.
HM: And, uh, you’ve answered this question. About you still write. Yes, you’re still writing.
Everyday. In your mind.
S: Yes. Yes. Yes. I have it in my mind. Calypso is on my mind throughout, throughout. Right.
Always.
HM: Tell me a little bit, we were talking mainly about touring, but, I mean composing, but tell me
about touring in the Caribbean, where you went and some about that history.
�24
S: Oh-ho. I went Grenada, St. Vincent, St. Lucia, Barbados, Dominica, Monserrat, Antigua. And
I didn’t go for a day, you know.
HM: You didn’t what?
S: I didn’t go for one day or two days.
HM: One day or two days, you were . . .
S: When we reach an island we go to every little village.
HM: Ah, you traveled around on each of those islands.
S: Surely. We’d sleep in the hall. (Laughs.) We sleep in the hall and the next, then we move to
another place. And sometimes we spend, we spend one month or more. I’d say that we stayed
in St. Vincent, we spent about two months in St. Vincent.
HM: Were there other performers traveling with you?
S: Yeah, well there’s mihself.
HM: A package?
S: A fella that was actin’ on a bicycle.
HM: You were traveling on bicycle.
S: No, no. He was an actor.
CM: There was another performer.
HM: There was another actor.
CM: Like a troupe. A group of performers.
HM: It was like a troupe. So some were actors. There would be an actor, there would be a
calypsonian.
CM: A magician.
HM: Different things, a magician.
S: He stayin’on the bicycle and take off the front wheel.
CM: Acrobatics and so on.
S: Yes. He have this wings, nut nut. He don’t have no spine I don’t know, and he take off the
front wheel, put it down, and his foot still on the pedal. He come back and he put back on the
wheel.
HM: While he was still on the bicycle.
�25
S: And he ride. On the stage I’m talking about, not in the road. (Laughs.)
HM: On the stage. Wow. This in the States they would call these vaudeville, or traveling,
sometimes they would be selling . . .
S: Yeah.
HM: . . . medicine. They would call them medicine shows, so it would be mostly alcohol, but they
would be selling. But they would draw people . . .
CM: Yes.
S: Mm-hm.
HM: . . . with these . . .
CM: Acts.
HM: . . . shows, with these acts.
S: Yes. Yes.
HM: But, who was putting these tours together? Who, was it an advertiser? Or who was
organizing them?
S: Well, the fella on the bicycle, he was the boss man. He was the man.
HM: So, he organized, the whole thing, he hired the people. He hired you.
S: Yes, of course. He hired me.
HM: How many years did you do that?
S: I did it, a two-year contract I had. With him, through the Caribbean. You know, through
those islands and so on. I did that two years with him.
HM: What years, roughly would that have been.
S: It was ’57-’59.
HM: ’57 through ’59.
S: Yeah.
HM: That’s wonderful.
S: Yeah.
HM: Well, is there anything else that you want to add? The, I, we answered all my questions . . .
�26
S: (Laughs.)
HM: . . . but maybe there’s something else that I didn’t ask that you would like to add. Anything?
S: Now let me go for the, let me say, I mean, after, what’s after this?
HM: After this, is that what you’re saying?
S: Yeah, what we’re doing after this?
HM: Oh, well, we’re going to eat. We’re going to have lunch. But I have no plans.
CM: Okay, well, no, he was just hopin’ to play one of the songs for you.
Others: Yeah. That would be great.
(Edit.)
(A recording of “Old Age is a Disaster,” performed by Surpriser at Kalypso Revue tent in 2000,
starts, stops, and then is re-started.)
CM: That’s it.
Others: (Several missing sentences.)
OM: (Popping sound.) That’s a short.
HM: I can set this down. You want to just start it over?
OM: Yeah.
HM: You can just start it over.
33:49
S: (To tent audience: Good night, ladies and gentlemen.
Age is honor me grandparents used to say
It’s ah treasure da we all should enjoy one day
Ah used to pay me attention to their conversation
Dey say age bring reason and respect to every man
Well, Ah always cherished de thoughts dat one day I’ll be
Enjoying de honor dat age would provide for me
But ah find is ah lie ah would tell you why
My whole life is a misery
Plagued with hypertension or some strange condition
Threatening restriction to my most important functions
Now checking quite carefully
�27
Ah come up wid dis philosophy
(Background vocals: Age is a disaster, old age is disappointment and horror)
Big brother, Things ah could ah do before
Honor make me can’t do dem no more
(Age is a disaster) Why they say it’s a number (old age is disappointment and horror)
Arthritis controls me joints
Have me losing reason to a point
(Age is a disaster,) You could ask Pretender (old age is disappointment and horror)
Me mind does tell me to go
When ah try de body saying no
(Age is a disaster, old age is disappointment and horror)
Ah remember in de days when ah was ah youth
D. Surpriser, Ah was fascinating and cute
Ah was the power of vigour, ah genius in every field
Ah master of professionalism and skill
When it come to calypso Ah had ah popular voice
Every show da Ah go Ah was always the lady’s choice
Now that age intervene and wrinkles stepped in
De table keep turning ‘round
Endurance falling down tolerance on de ground
When Ah walk ‘round de town ladies watching me like ah clown
At de rate I keep noticing, strange and funny things start happening
(Age is a disaster, old age is disappointment and horror)
Ever so regularly undertakers checking home by me
(Age is a disaster) Not a rumor (old age is disappointment and horror)
Posing as some longtime friend, Passing little handout now and den
(Age is a disaster) Why you say is a number? (old age is disappointment and horror)
Well, brother, ketch one wid ah piece of string, so Ah know is me length dey measuring
(Age is a disaster, old age is disappointment and horror)
CM: Long ago. That’s what undertakers used to do. To measure you for the coffin.
Others: (Indistinct.)
As ah sportsman, many thrilling battles Ah won
Ah was ah champion in de javelin and marathon
Ah used to conquer me opponents in fine style
Now honor have me once ah man, twice ah child
If Ah try to regain de fame Ah eh have ah chance
I am nothing but a cultural annoyance
Well sometime Ah does cry whenever I try
Failure’s got me spellbound
Ah does feel like Ah strong when de time come around
But I “oops” on de ground so different to when Ah was young
Ah used to tackle old man Dick
He couldn’t walk without ah walking stick
(Age is a disaster, old age is disappointment and horror)
Ask brother, Dat man tell me one day, “Wey eh pass you, doh feel you get away.”
�28
(Age is a disaster,) I tellin’ you (old age is disappointment and horror)
Big Brother, When Ah met me wife Cathy, Papa Rocky she used to call me
(Age is a disaster,) all right, all right, (old age is disappointment and horror)
Yes, papa, Right now when I pass by she, hear de whisper, “Softie, softie.”
(Age is a disaster, old age is disappointment and horror)
Those present for interview and live recording audience: (Laughter and applause.)
Emcee (Sprangalang): Surpriser.
HM: Do another verse?
S: Yes.
I am warning you, de younger generations
To do something to avoid dis situation
Sometimes you may have to go down on your knees and pray
And hope that this gracious honor eh pass your way
When your hair turn silver and it start to drop off you head
And your losing your vigor my boy you better off dead
Now while you are young, you’re vicious and strong
Please take dis wonderful note
Place your concentration in the right direction
Know your obligation and enjoy de pleasures of earth
Now, some old men does walk de street, they forget dat age have a limit
(Age is a disaster, old age is disappointment and horror)
Big brother, when they see a well-shaped chick, if you see old style and monkey trick
(Age is a disaster,) Eh, eh, brother (old age is disappointment and horror)
Yes, papa, Ah young girl dey called Yvonne, tell me how she had ah (missing word) wid one
(Age is a disaster,) I tellin’ you (old age is disappointment and horror)
Yes, papa, She (two missing words) to split de scene, She couldn’t take de head dat he was
pushing
(Age is a disaster, old age is disappointment and horror) Aiiee.
Emcee: (To audience.) 69 years old next month.
S: (To people present for interview.) That was 2000.
Emcee: Form is temporal. Class is permanent. You know what is worrying me, boy? Them fellas
tired and they’re slow and t’ing, boy, but oh god they have this calypso down to a science, boy.
You have, you gotta have the next verse from the old man? Yeah. Let me go back again.
Surpriser doh run ‘way. We’re gonna get the next verse. It’s a bad one. Them young boys have
them energy like rain, but the elders stand you up. Papi. Come back. Sing Papi.
(Surpriser sings)
Ah remembe in de days when Ah was ah youth
D. Surpriser, Ah was fascinating and cute
Ah was the power of vigor, ah genius in every field
�29
Ah was a master of professionalism and skill
When it come to calypso Ah had ah popular voice
Every show da Ah go Ah was always the lady’s choice
Now that age intervene and wrinkles step in
De table keep turning ‘round
Endurance falling down tolerance on de ground
When Ah walk ‘round de town ladies watching me like ah clown
Now, at de rate I keep noticing, strange and funny things start happening
(Age is a disaster), Not a rumor (old age is disappointment and horror)
Ever so regularly undertakers checking home by me
(Age is a disaster,) Why they say it’s ah number? (old age is disappointment and horror)
Posing as me longtime friend, Passing little notes out now and den
(Age is a disaster) (missing words) (old age is disappointment and horror)
Ah, yes man, ketch one wid ah piece of string, so Ah know is me length dey measuring
Thank you, ladies and gentlemen, thank you
(Age is a disaster, old age is disappointment and horror)
OM: Nice one.
Emcee: (To tent audience.) Put your hands . . . (Recorded version of “Old Age” ends.)
(Applause by those present for the interview.)
End of interview
�
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
J. Hunter Moore
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Surpriser (Clevin Romero)
Location
The location of the interview
Home of Carmsen Merrique, Surpriser’s daughter, Mount Lambert, Trinidad and Tobago
Duration
Length of time involved (seconds, minutes, hours, days, class periods, etc.)
47:15
Time Summary
A summary of an interview given for different time stamps throughout the interview
Subject sings: 7:49, 9:50, 17:07, 24:50, 33:48
------------------------------
Notes about interview: the interview took place on an outside porch. A neighbor’s electric drill is heard intermittently. Two minutes (approx.) near the end of the recording, during which sound equipment was being set up, has not been included. As of December 1, 2017, Surpriser was said to be the oldest performing calypsonian in Trinidad and Tobago.
The lyric for “Old Age is a Disaster” matches the version that is played during the interview, but the dialect I use in the transcription is taken from Surpriser’s handwritten lyric of the song. Surpriser presented me with a handwritten lyric and said that he knew the standard spelling but had intentionally used creole for his handwritten version.
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Surpriser interview
Description
An account of the resource
Actual name: Clevin Romero
Other sobriquets/nicknames: D. Surpriser, Mighty Surpriser, Scorpion (early)
Date of birth: February 24, 1931
Place of birth: Gran Lagun community, Mayaro, Trinidad and Tobago
Awards (as of March 2018): South Calypso King, 1971, National Calypso King Semi-Finals, 1970, 1971, Chaguanas Calypso King, four years (beginning in 1960’s), Couva Calypso King, three years
Best songs/best-known songs: “Old Age is a Disaster,” “De Lazy Villager,” “Leave D Salt”
---------------------------------------
Individuals heard during the interview:
S: Surpriser
HM: Hunter Moore
CM: Carmsen Merrique (Surpriser’s daughter)
OM: Ozy Merrique (Supriser’s grandson)
RT: Ruth Telfer, a friend
ER: Elizabeth Ryan, a friend
--------------------------------------
Trinidad and Tobago terms and expressions as used in the interview:
Ah: I, I’m, a, or as an interjection: “ah!”
Dey: they
Doh: don’t
Eh: ain’t
Extempo: a form of calypso in which two singers take turns insulting each other via extemporized verse set to an established melody, known traditionally as picong or “war”
Mihself: myself
TUCO: Trinbago Unified Calypsonians’ Organisation, promotes calypso and calypsonians
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-10-13
-
https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/40461/archive/files/86a85c9a351533b3456186a4873f3004.jpg?Expires=1712793600&Signature=HdiYcPsLPSAs0dSBH5uW7QlDnSngJZrweZU1SizA%7E5vdXhqLLZtcu0Sbp-VL%7EIKenv24Ydv8kzjZ2i2uxvd-THMzP9MZrALSxBsSfInBEHXlOxaXt0%7ErIsG5BnLfHuTvB0sVOSDSgNGuOv5FERQUlII8W9LZGIZmh4fCgQJoJSPNDxtB3qiRrHHDzQG-dqsOeCbQUgkRNSNFUm9JAyejniQAIs06I4TgtUYN7fHP92uaVQtZi%7EkjWBuIrHI6Xn-U8uV1xOgmovYLS1QWLrq4b7yC6Tfcmr21igfIECwL0HXcQYAv0zkr5lh2Jd1awFoNtE2EFHeNzyOVkzvoSpKEAQ__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM
8c4db5dd38d7fe257b19f44176366ae9
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Winsford Devine, 2017
https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/40461/archive/files/abceaf8ed54fffa8f1e8200e0b16b477.mp3?Expires=1712793600&Signature=sns7pgSx1uvQ0j10mSxUcJkqJtIz95QEXf%7E8%7ECvGglcMcw81NkloL4w0IJWubrxOr55665Aj6HY4WWpb1jMsL6rwPTfJ2vRaNSc-Y1YJev641Csa6tkzfJIuJbBwR4Zwn7MfgdSWg5sMtvbHKUu863WNZ-8B2DcqcH5hYsMkAPqniRzw4y6JmOBvFEFlcwCKYa4LbxLjjjv1DWf4fRithPvtCqbEyJ4nyehDmd%7ECdYbZSkvQ0tcBCnJ8x23hUiztuUslbHqAkISsjlCf0sYPKA-TEt0tsNCc3h-9SXJEoYJfkrB1RYNSp-%7ERD0sp8tqkL28rvAZk4WFOEGTNQE0iDA__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM
afeb6c9555ebbf45d8bee53a0ae703f5
https://d1y502jg6fpugt.cloudfront.net/40461/archive/files/beb77836d00fa803caa26f0189fe9ad7.pdf?Expires=1712793600&Signature=jd3tPBhL61rupwRK3qTZ%7EyJPzh0jWUZiK5%7EgMyLki2ab82Xa0wOecnEXG4WKfTJIiqNfZNqc2FhyHu4osRfT2yyYdSbjX-AoBmOaDXm7a0Hgm61eByFAMXr9LBkqptxAEWJTfE%7EmgonMrah50MZSK7-9sI21CeIt5KOVL2LjmwbLUYNbcCPMIupW9BA-9hqFkfhJi4doqC1xkPz88kcHkDXrW%7EY-U8KJWV1ToM71ZvW7xZCNGnRaIDgI2gX25zaCaMrXNGTtueFsABgaNaAmQUqcgs018o-vSHyT0qUozYw8n7NTT49Uh2d2Wn47ljqi8ERCNzv9-6WbFqBIT3r6Tw__&Key-Pair-Id=K6UGZS9ZTDSZM
9c0753a197188991eb519b78a756eaf2
PDF Text
Text
Interview subject: Winsford Devine
Interviewer: J. Hunter Moore
Date: November 2, 2017
Location of interview: subject’s home in Diego Martin, Trinidad and Tobago
Other sobriquets/nicknames: Joker
Date of birth: August 15, 1943
Location of birth: Morne Diablo, Trinidad and Tobago
Awards (as of March 2018): Honorary Doctor of Letters (University of West Indies, St.
Augustine), 2018, Honorary Distinguished Fellow, The Arts (University of Trinidad and Tobago),
2016, Hummingbird Medal (Silver), 2015
Best songs/best-known songs: “Progress,” “Saltfish,” “Phillip, My Dear,” “Steelband Woman,”
“Capitalism Gone Mad,” “Say Say,” “Too Young to Soca,” and many, many others
-----------------------------------------------Individuals heard during the interview:
WD: Winsford Devine
GB: GB Ballantyne
HM: Hunter Moore
-----------------------------------------------Trinidad and Tobago terms and expressions as used in the interview:
Dey: there
Eh: ain’t,
Mih: my, I
Yuh: you
-----------------------------------------------Subject sings: 7:01
-----------------------------------------------(Interview begins mid-sentence.)
�2
GB: Flamingo?
WD: That’s the same happen mih with that name. I said, “I ain’t keepin’. Mih name Winsford
Devine.”
GB: Yeah. I had the same problem. Sparrow tried to call me “Jibby.” J-I-B, that’s why, I could
show you a pamphlet, Sparrow put my name J-I-B-B-Y on the tent promotion. I said, “Birdie, it
G-B.”
WD: I remember. I saw . . .
GB: You saw it?
WD: . . . when you make your debut.
GB: 1986.
WD: With . . .
GB: “Big Country Attitude.”
WD: “Big Country Attitude.” You and, was three people make debut that year. You, Penguin with
“Telco Poops.”
GB: Right.
WD: . . . and Trini, Trini sing, now he had (a few missing words), but he really came out when he
sing, I write the song, with my “Soca Your Woman.”
GB: Right.
WD: He was big in the tent by then.
GB: Anyway, listen, I only came along here to help in case Hunter, or something. You?
HM: That’s alright. Tell me, most of the questions I’m gonna have are about songwriting, about
how you write. But when did you begin writing calypsos? When did you write your first calypso?
WD: First, my first calypso was, came out in public in 196-, ‘69 or ’68, between there. I wrote it
in 1968, but it came out in 1969. Blakie sang it, Lord Blakie.
HM: Blakie sung it. What was the name of the calypso?
WD: “Road March Recipe.“
HM: Ah. But what about the first one you wrote, when you were probably pretty young, before, I
mean, that didn’t come out in public, but just the first time, do you remember when you, first time
you wrote a calypso?
WD: Okay, okay. I write, I remember writing a song name of “The Suit.”
�3
HM: “The Suit.”
WD: Yeah.
HM: How old were you when you wrote “The Suit”?
WD: Well, I was in my teens.
HM: In your teens.
WD: I wrote that song, “Well, you borrow a suit from me.”
HM: He borrowed a suit?
WD: I borrowed a suit from him to go to a wedding and the day of the wedding he tellin’ me,
“Don’t sit down dey, don’t stand up dey, look rain fallin’, come out of the rain.” (Laughs.)
HM: Come out of the rain.
WD: Yeah.
HM: Have you ever written anything besides calypso, any other kinds of music besides calypso?
WD: I wrote two ballads.
HM: Two ballads.
WD: Two ballads. Two ballads were, a ballad for King Austin. And I wrote a calypso ballad for a
guy name of, (four missing syllables) that is the same guy with, perform on New York
Connections.
HM: What was the name of the King Austin ballad?
WD: “To Be with You.”
HM: “To Be with You”?
WD: Yeah.
HM: ‘Cause I want to listen to that. Well, how do you know . . .
WD: I doubt if you will get a copy of it. It came out on a little, one of them little 45’s. You wouldn’t
see that any more.
HM: Sometimes it ends up on the internet, though, even though it was just a small record.
WD: I tried to pull it up the other day.
HM: It didn’t come up.
WD: I’m pullin’ up all the rest of the songs I’ve written.
�4
HM: Interesting. Well, how do you know when it’s a calypso versus a ballad. What makes it a
calypso to you, say, you know? You say “I’m writing . . ..”
WD: Rhythm.
HM: The rhythm?
WD: Yeah. You see all, nearly all popular songs that are written in 4/4 time, 4/4. Could sing in
any genre, all you have to do is change the rhythm.
HM: Do calypso-?
WD: Unlike, there are some calypso that is written in what they call cut time.
HM: Cut time.
WD: Cut time, right. Two-fourths. Well, I does write in two-fourths. I write, look, I’m not formally
trained to write music, so I write in two-fourths.
HM: You write in 2/4.
WD: Yeah. Which is cut time. And when an international musician playing it, it sound different. I
had that problem when I arranged for a guy from New York one time and when we were working
with some Haitian musicians, they reading the music correctly, but when they played it,
somehow the metering and the lilt of the song . . .
HM: It was different.
WD: Well, yeah. I had to practically put them to sit down and (Demonstrates conducting.) Bupbup-bup-bup.
HM: And teach them.
WD: Yeah.
HM: So, the rhythm is the main thing.
WD: Now, if you’re writing for four-fourths you would not have that problem.
HM: But when you write calypso, are you influenced by other kinds of music?
WD: Sometimes. Not all the time.
HM: It’s mostly you’re influenced by other calypso that you’ve heard in the past.
WD: Hardly, hard-, I don’t listen to much calypso.
HM: So, yeah. So.
�5
WD: Now I was talkin’ ‘bout that with GB. Conceptualizing a song. What happen is I have mih
own style. And I write these days, I used to write in longhand long time, with a tape recorder in
front of me.
5:02
HM: So, you used to write it out in longhand?
WD: Yeah. Longhand, with a, I had a guitar, as far as I don’t play guitar now, can’t play a guitar
again, but I, since I had my stroke, if you notice my arm.
HM: Would you sit with a guitar?
WD: I sit with my guitar now and plug in my cassette tape recorder.
HM: Music tape cassette recorder?
WD: Any kind of tape recorder. And I sit down there and I get the concept and I start writing line
by line, line by line. After I have the whole song put down, right . . .
HM: Do you start from then right . . .
WD: . . . then . . .
HM: . . . from the beginning to the finish or do you do the chorus first?
WD: Anyhow. Sometime the chorus come first. Sometime the chorus come first. One of the
problems with I writing songs is when you get an idea and write a verse and a chorus, follow-up,
following up there, especially a calypso that’s kind of long. It’s hard to pull up the rest of the
verses.
HM: To get the rest of the verses.
WD: Sometimes, I wrote a calypso for Baron, “Say Say,” and it took me a whole year. I had the
music for the chorus, everything. Down. Pat. And Baron in New York waiting, waiting for the
song. And they’re not for hell, them words . . .
GB: Wouldn’t come.
WD: It wouldn’t come out. Told GB. Here what happened, and then, happened that me and
Merchant we start this rhythm thing, we started write on a rhythm. Now we would sit down with
we guitars and make rhythms. And with, you know, them Casio . . .
HM: Keyboards.
GB: Keyboards.
WD: Them small Casio keyboards. I used to use that.
�6
GB: Right.
WD: I started with a small one. And then I started to graduate to the bigger one. Then I used a
use a, use the Brazilian beat, man.
GB: Samba.
WD: Yeah.
HM: Ah, samba.
WD: Yeah, the samba beat. Then you will translate to calypso after. I put down that song, and I
have it dey.
HM: And that helped.
WD: (Sings.) Baby, my soul on fire. (Speaks.) I have the melody.
GB: Yeah. (Sings.) Set my soul on fire, fire, fire.
HM: So when he had the keyboard it helped
GB: Yeah. Oh yeah.
WD: So, here’s what I did.
GB: (Sings.) Bring the water.
WD: When Baron call me, he tell me, “Joker, that last piece of melody, that you have?” I said,
“Well, mih, I don’t have the words for it,” and I sat down there dey, I said, “Let me take a little
smoke.”
GB: (Laughs.)
WD: And I take that smoke. I said, now here what happened. I get the chorus, “Baby, my soul
on fire.”
GB: (Sings.) Fire, fire. Bring water.
WD: Then I make that. And then I play that over and over and over and over and over, and here
what happened, then I come and I make the verse right on top that chorus. Hear me, that’s what
I was telling you. The only person who play that right is your partner who do it with the Hatters.
GB:Ah-hah. Achiba?
WD: No. The man from, the senior man from, his son does arrange now.
GB: (Two missing syllables) boy?
WD: Played with the band. A tenor pan.
�7
GB: Not Achiba?
WD: Nah, he used to arrange for Hatters at the time.
GB: Later.
WD: From Boogsie band.
GB: Right. Phase II.
WD: Yeah. From Phase II. Forget his name. Ah. His son went to Berklee.
HM: What’s the name of the song?
GB: “Say Say.”
WD: His son went to Berklee.
HM: Son went to Berklee?
WD: Yeah. He does play band now.
GB: (Three or four missing syllables).
WD: Who? Nah, not either. We’ll continue.
GB: Was it Tambu? Tambu went Berklee.
WD: That boy, he had a little minor stroke the other day.
GB: Went to Berklee.
WD: His son does arrange. He does arrange all around the place.
GB: (Three or four missing syllables.)
HM: I know there have been several that went to Berklee.
WD: He arrange. He’s the only man who played that properly.
GB: Play it properly.
WD: Properly. Here what, because I . . .
GB: You play the verse on top of the chorus?
WD: I mention that. I tell him, play (Sings a line.) Dai-dai-dai-dai (etc.) Then I make the chorus.
And happen, GB, happen. When I went, when I reach New York, with that song to come here.
Had the, all on the plane I writin’ the lyrics.
HM: You’re writing the lyrics. Yeah?
�8
WD: Yeah. When I reaching New York with that song and Baron says, “Let me hear me the
song now.” Was Reno and me, I think. I ain’t sure, GB. Gypsy was there. Was me and a fellow
named Reno. Reno does sing calypso, too. We sitting in my room and understand (three or four
missing syllables) they said, “Sing the song.” Well I take my guitar and when I sing that song.
The woman in there was a lady named Melda we used to stay by. When she heard it, she said,
“I love that one!” (Laughter.) I had the whole song. When Baron hear that, when Baron put down
the voice, and when Baron start, he have a high part.
GB: (Sings.) Bring water. Plenty water.
10:01
HM: So does Baron . . .
WD: (Sings.) Dai-dai-dai (etc.)
HM: Baron was recording this?
GB: Baron. Oh yes, it was a Baron song.
WD: (Speaks.) Here what happen. When the boy was arranging it, Ardin Herbert for Invaders. I
tell them, I said, “Alvin Daniell come here.” I tell them what to do because (two or three missing
words). (WD and GB sing groove for “Say Say.”) That could play the whole, right through the
whole tune.
GB: Okay. (Sings groove for “Say Say.”)
HM: I gotta listen to that.
GB: Yeah.
WD: Yeah. Here what happen. And the bass, the one I do the bass line to. So, the tune could,
the whole damn bloody tune could play on that one bass line.
GB: On the bass line.
WD: Like a rhythm.
GB: Like a James Brown kind of rhythm.
WD: Me and Merchant is who started to do that too.
GB: Okay. Rhythm and bass line. Build on top of that.
WD: We got that, I got that from Arrow. Arrow is the man who started to do that with “Hot, Hot,
Hot.”
GB: (Sings.) Feelin’ hot, hot, hot.
�9
WD: Do you know it is Leston (Paul) who did “Hot, Hot, Hot”?
GB: Yes, yes.
HM: That makes me think . . .
WD: He never gave Leston no credit for that.
GB: No credit, but let’s not talk about it.
HM: Ah, Lord Superior, Supie told me that Lord Melody used to write his songs just by playing
bass lines on the guitar, he couldn’t really play the chords, but he could play the bass lines.
GB: Mm-hm.
HM: And so that’s how he would . . .
WD: Would you believe that in the dying stages of Melody’s career I write two songs for him?
He came here and sit down here and I write two songs. I write for Nello Nelson, too. Two songs.
I could remember one of the song. Nelson come with that topic. He said, “Joker, anything you
want, you could find it in town.” He come down. I used to live down there. He come down. I see
this man walking down there, asking people, “Where Joker livin’?” And he come down here, he
sit down there, “Well, I want to write.” I write two for, I can’t even remember what the name of
that other song. I know one of the songs named “Town Have It.” That was the chorus.
GB: “Town Have It.”
WD: Anything you could think about . . .
HM: “Town Have It.”
GB: Anything you want you can get in town.
WD: “Town Have It.” Yeah.
GB: Yeah.
WD: You know who I write one for and I can’t remember the song. Anytime you see him you
must ask him. Rikki Jai. I write two songs with Rikki Jai. I can’t remember . . .
HM: Rikki Jai. Yeah.
WD: My partner Sean Randall can’t even get it. Can’t remember.
GB: That’s after I launch him with “Sumintra.”
WD: Yeah. After you launch him with “Sumintra.” I tell him you write “Sumintra.” He and Bally
used to come. Here what happen with Rikki Jai, right? Rikki Jai used to come here nearly every
week. He came here one day without Bally when I said I didn’t want to talk to him with Bally. He
come and he start to come by me without Bally. Because Bally do me something years ago, a
�10
funny thing, but we talk about that later. Here what happened, he came by me and sit down right
dey and I sittin’ right there. I had this house already. He come and he sit down dey, and he
talkin’ ‘bout “What can I change?” I said, “Rikki, here we talking, now listen now to me. Go back
to your basic.” He said, “What do you mean?” I said, “Watch me. You’re an East Indian. You
hardly will win the crown.”
GB: Right.
WD: You know what I’m saying? The face change. The face change.
GB: Yeah.
WD: Cause I told him, I said, “Watch me. Go back to your Chutney origins.” And that was such a
good vibes, 'cause I meet him in award show where they did award Machel for ahGB: (To HM.) The light coming through the window. You can get a nice picture from here.
Capture it. Catch that.
WD: Yeah, I met him in an award show and we discuss that. He tell me, he said, “Joker, you
know what you were saying.” That man become a millionaire.
GB: Yeah, but I, I launch him and set him up nice. (To WD.) Turn, turn, turn and and look at
Hunter. You’ll get a better, yes.
HM: Can you turn and look at me like that?
GB: Yeah. See that situation? Did some photography in school and seein’ that picture. With the
light coming through the window, coloring the face there? Nice shot.
WD: I like Rikki Jai.
GB: Yeah.
WD: He treat you right, though?
GB: (To HM.) Beautiful. Beautiful. Yeah. Yeah. (To WD.) Yeah, he treat me, well, he tried to
make up, but, he started off . . .
WD: He became a millionaire.
GB: . . . when he start seeing big money, so he get stupid.
WD: Yeah, well that is how it does happen.
GB: He couldn’t even pay for the song.
WD: He came by me, after that, he said, “Joker, boy.”
HM: He couldn’t pay for the song?
�11
GB: He couldn’t even pay for the song. He was working as a clerk with Bally in customs on
Abercrombie Street.
WD: Yeah. In customs. I remember. That’s when he used to come by me. He used to come by
me and sit in that chair.
GB: Yeah. I gave him two songs. After “Sumintra” I give him a song called “Good Fathers” and
“Citizen.”
WD: He win the south crown.
GB: He win south monarch. He win Young King. He win, he make Dimanche Gras and won
sixth. He win some other thing. Unattached Monarch. He win three titles in that year.
WD: I think so, I think so, yeah.
GB: Then he come and he win Chutney with “Sumintra” and the next song.
WD: I remember.
HM: What was the other song, “Good Fathers”? What was the other one?
GB: “Good Citizen.” And, ah,
HM: “Good Citizen.”
GB: Yeah.
15:00
HM: The songs you gave him. Yeah.
GB: Yeah. Rikki Jai.
WD: Here what happened.
GB: Don’t forget about the interview.
HM: (Laughter.) Oh, yeah. The interview.
GB: I’m going to walk away. I don’t want to interrupt you.
HM: Where, where do you, where do you get your ideas?
WD: I just sit and I conceptualize.
GB: Conceptualize your own thing.
WDS: Yeah.
�12
HM: So, but when it starts, where does the idea come from?
WD: You know, I can’t tell you that. You know many times people ask me that. I don’t know.
HM: Something someone says, something you see.
WD: Yeah, something I see. Maybe I something I see. I hear on the news and all this kind of . . .
HM: I know it can,
WD: . . . sometimes I sit and I just take a phrase.
HM: Of something someone says? Or you read or something.
WD: No. I, what you call it, you coin a phrase. I coin a phrase and I write on it.
HM: I know it can happen different ways. Is there, can you think of a particular song where you
can remember where the idea, you were sitting there and something happened and then it
ended up being this particular song?
WD: Yeah. “Progress” was written after I went San Fernando and I see something. I see a
deterioration of the environment. In San Fernando.
HM: Of the nature. A deterioration of nature?
WD: Yeah. The environment, really. (Five missing syllables) ‘cause there was a hill in San
Fernando. Anywheres you stood up in south you coulda seen that hill. Anywhere. And when I
went there that day, the government had allowed them to quarry and they quarried down the
whole hill and I think they stop it now. But there’s only a little piece of the original.
HM: Hill was left.
WD: Yeah.
HM: So that you saw that and that inspired the song.
WD: To write “Progress.”
HM: That’s a beautiful song. Are there, in your work overall, are there certain themes that seem
to come out more often? A certain, topics or themes that come from your songs?
WD: There may be lines that I could, maybe I have a tendency to repeat sometimes to get
across a certain idea.
HM: So, what, say, could you say that again? What, is that a particular theme?
WD: I said I may use a certain phrase, to get across a particular idea. Now all songwriters (four
missing syllables) that is how you know you could know their brand. You listen and hear that.
HM: Because it’s your sound.
�13
WD: A turn of phrase and all this kind of . . .
HM: But what about a particular topic. Are you drawn more toward singing about certain
things?
WD: Well, I like, I don’t hardly write a local political songs. Hardly.
HM: You don’t do that.
WD: Yeah. I write world politics.
HM: About world politics.
WD: Yeah.
HM: So bigger.
WD: Yeah.
HM: Not just local.
WD: Yeah. The reason for that is that when you write local politics, like if you write for the
competition? The highest standard is political commentary in Trinidad and Tobago, and I does
hardly write by that because if you, when you write political commentary in your own country,
you have a tendency to take a side.
HM: Ah, people take a side.
WD: Yeah. And when you take a side you haven’t got the next side.
HM: So you’ve lost . . .
WD: And that put me in a lot of trouble in my life, you know.
HM: You’ve lost that part of the audience that . . .
WD: Yeah.
HM: . . . disagrees.
WD: Yeah. Here what happened.
HM: How did you get in trouble?
WD: The government wasn’t doing well at a certain time, and a party was aspiring to be in the
government came to me, a high-ranking member of the party came and asked me to write a
song for them. Now, the government side had already sent an invoice to ask me to write a song
for them. I wrote that song. And subsequently the ruling party didn’t want to pay for the song so
he get vex, he had a disenchantment with the party because certain things happen in his life
that he came back and tell me, “Joker, you can do whatever you want with that song.” So, I
�14
disregard that song and I write a new song for them called “Vote Them Out.” “Anytime you have
a chance, vote them out.” Was a song by a fella named Deple, D-E-P-L-E.
HM: Okay. D-E-P-L-E.
WD: That’s the artist that we used for that. I didn’t even put my name on the song because I’m
afraid the political . . .
HM: Content.
WD: Repercussion and so on. And I write the song and then they lost. They had thirty-six seat in
the parliament. They lost thirty-three to three. “Vote Them Out” was the name of the song.
HM: So, that, your song helped that happen.
19:58
WD: Yeah. I wrote twice and put them out of power, you know. Crazy came here (two or three
missing syllables) and tell me. He came and ask me write a song for them and I write a song for
them and they lost again, but not so bad.
HM: So that made you unpopular? With them?
WD: Well, who know? Because I have a tendency to keep mih name out of these songs.
HM: Not have your name on it.
WD: Crazy was the fall guy the second time. So, everybody down on Crazy.
HM: Ah, they were down on Crazy for that. For putting that out.
WD: A song name of “Patrick Manning Will Have to Go.” That Crazy.
HM: That was in the song?
WD: That is the name of the song. And Crazy sung it and he record it. But the one with Deple, I
never put nobody name. I tend to, now that I’m doing over and I get my doctorate and people
interview me and I’ll say it, because I’ve done that.
HM: You’ve done that.
WD: Yeah, I’ve done felt the repercussion. Because they kind of ostracize me after that. Any
song that I write now. You see it is feasible for the ruling party. Calypso plays a very important
part in the politics here, so what the parties do, the judgin’ of the calypso, they will install the
activists inside there, so the activists will look out for their party, but the people don’t know that,
GB will know that, you understand, so we people know that now, and they write to suit the
judges and then they bond with the judges, and the judges know that. “I am kind of for your
party.” When they judgin’, they judge accordingly. GB is a master f that. GB know how to ride
the waves.
�15
HM: How to ride the waves.
WD: Yeah. I stopped doing that.
HM: You can’t get too tied into one party.
WD: Yeah. I don’t know. I don’t write on no side. I mean, I write a song how I feel.
HM: You’d rather, you rather stay, talk about, you were saying world politics. Larger issues.
WD: Yeah, and then if I’m writing local politics, if you pay me, if you come with a fee, for me to
write for you for election, they call it a campaign song, that is plenty money. There are plenty of
people do that, because the song becomes yours (three or four missing syllables).
HM: It becomes who you are. Well, I was just going to say, then, are you influenced, is your
writing influenced by the community around you, what’s important to the community?
WD: Sometimes.
HM: Sometimes?
WD: We call that social commentary.
HM: Social commentary.
WD: Most my songs are like that.
HM: Not political, but social.
WD: Not political songs because I write things that focus on God, the gods, and all them kind of
things.
HM: So issues . . .
WD: That’s what is standing me in good stead these days. Maybe get me that doctorate the
other day. I have a doctorate and I have a fellowship from the other university, too.
HM: Right. Well I knew you got your doctorate from U.W.I. last week.
WD: Yeah that’s (three or four missing syllables) but I got a fellowship from U.T.T., too.
HM: From U.T.T. also.
WD: Yeah.
HM: That was a big honor. Do you write at particular times of day? Is there a particular time of
day you like better?
WD: I write when I feel like it. When I’m doing nothing, sitting upstairs. I have a computer
upstairs.
�16
HM: And what time of day would that be?
WD: Anytime.
HM: Anytime, but you’re upstairs is the location.
WD: Anytime. I have a keyboard. I can’t play the keyboard. You know, I can’t play my guitar
again. I have guitar and all them kind of thing, but I can’t play.
HM: But you play a keyboard?
WD: But I have a keyboard, I coulda thing with one hand and all this kind of thing.
HM: So you can find the notes.
WD: Yeah. With the right software. I put on the Reason or Logic on the computer and all them
kind of, and I build a rhythm and I sit down there and I . . .
HM: So, you build a rhythm on the keyboard.
WD: Yeah.
HM: And find it, and, but the time of day doesn’t matter so much.
WD: I could put, I know what chords and all them kind of things. I could do something for yuh. I
could show you. Like a G chord for two bars or four bars.
HM: You can decide if you want it to last for two, how many measures you want it to last.
WD: Then I had to have this thing on the computer whey yuh does write music with, I forget the
name, boy. Notepad. I use Notepad. You come and yuh get an empty staff and I would show
yuh and I could put a,
HM: Is Notepad the software? Or is . . .
WD: Notepad is a software. You get an empty staff. (Draws an example.) And then you could
write the notes and the chords. You can put the chords.
24:58
HM: You can lay out the chords.
WD: You could lay out the chords, that’s all you want, but you have to be, you see I used to
arrange for steel band and enjoy. I would put D, (Continues drawing.) four bars, C, two bars,
and I would put it in the computer and the Notepad does read it and play it.
HM: So it would play it then once it was programmed, once you had it in there.
�17
WD: You have the right note Notepad it will play it.
HM: So you just build the track that way.
WD: Yeah. And then I will hear it and then once I have them chords play, I could sing on top
that.
HM: Then you could sing your melody over the top.
WD: Yeah.
HM: Well, you said that you might start with the chorus, you might start with the verse, it just
depends on the song. When you were writing before computers did you write anything down
before you were finished? Or did you complete the song and before you put it down,
WD: Yeah. If I out of my house.
HM: You do what?
WD: If I’m outside of the house. Like if I’m in town,
HM: You went outside the house?
WD: If I’m in town.
HM: In town?
WD: I constantly does be beatin’ my foot all the time. If I in town I could write a song in town. It’s
like what GB said he went up there.
HM: You would just do it in your head? You would think about it.
WD: Yeah. Make it and not to forget I take a piece of paper. And I write down the notes and . . .
HM: You would write down the notes.
WD: . . . and the value of the notes and when I come home here I remember it.
HM: Where did you learn to write the notes? In school?
WD: Well, people taught me.
HM: People taught you?
WD: Yeah.
HM: How to, was that from pan?
WD: Was from pan. And then some of them guys when I start to write, they used to come here,
people like you heard about Clive Bradley? You must have heard for Clive Bradley, he used to
�18
come here regular. And I had a keyboard upstairs, one of them Casio keyboards and he
showed me certain things.
HM: So, you learned how to notate the music.
WD: Yeah.
HM: That’s helpful.
WD: Yeah. I would notate what I write in town and when I come home I look as close as
possible to what I do. And when I come home here, on any paper, you know, wouldn’t have to
have staff, just write the note on top of the note.
HM: Then you could write it down.
WD: Yeah. Let me get a piece of paper, lend me a pen and I show you how to do it. I’ll show
you. I write the note. I write like it this, (Writes an example.) then I write all the notes.
HM: Then you would just write down all the notes like that.
WD: Then I would put E.
HM: Oh, and you would put the name of the note over the note. So, you didn’t have to write . . .
WD: Or I could write the value over it
HM: . . . you didn’t have to write it on a musical staff. You know . . .
WD: Nah.
HM: . . . with the five lines?
WD: Nah.
HM: You could just write it down and write,
WD: Could put it, do so. Notate the . . .
HM: Yeah, okay. So those would be the measures.
WD: Yeah.
HM: That’s interesting. Yeah. I’m teaching something at the school right now that we use in
Nashville and instead of writing E or D or C we write the number of the note in the scale it’s in.
WD: Oh, yeah. You could put that number?
HM: If it was in the key of C
WD: Same thing. Same thing
�19
HM: Same thing? So if it was in the key of C and this was a C, you would write a “1,” ‘cause
that’s the, that’s the bass, the tonic.
WD: Ah. ‘Cause I have something, that I should, that Bradley do for me, with all the relevant
chords in every key.
HM: Oh, they had a, it was like a diagram or a chart?
WD: Yeah.
HM: Would show you, then you could just read down and see . . .
WD: Yeah. Let me see, like the key of C. Another thing, there were certain things, like diamond,
like notes, I don’t know. Let me teach you something.
HM: The diamonds, yeah.
WD: There are notes that, if you have a pan here. Let me say if you have a pan and your guitar.
There are notes, from the time you hit the note it will resound on your guitar.
HM: You would also sound on the guitar.
WD: Yeah. I don’t know if you ever had that experience. It would sound on the guitar.
HM: Yeah. Sympathetic.
WD: Yeah.
HM: Sympathetic vibration.
WD: Yeah, I don’t know what you call it. But there are notes that you will sing. And if you have a
pan there, a tin cup or something, it will bounce on that tin cup and head back and all that kind
of thing. These are powerful notes. Bradley and them teach me these things. I never knew them
things. These are things I teach people in my mentorship class and all that.
HM: You had a mentorship class?
WD: Yeah. I had a successful one.
HM: So you would teach them that, too? That really helps to have that ‘cause I’ve talked to
some calypsonians that they would write everything in their head when they were younger, not
older but younger before they would ever, and they would never write it down because they
didn’t know how to write it down.
WD: I can’t remember.
HM: They would just have to remember it.
29:59
�20
WD: And then they have what they have called the formattin’ songs. I had to teach these guys
that one there. About format. I told them, “Watch me. It don’t make no sense. Calypso is a
complete format of a song.” You understand that? We use it as we . . .
HM: Oh, you can use it over and over again?
WD: Yeah, but we really modern ones, like me and GB, we start to write different.
HM: Different, not using the old formulas.
D: Yeah. Because I does write. now I does write, I never write a calypso . . .
HM: The old traditional kind.
WD: . . . without the two parts. I always do like the Americans. I will write a third part where, now
we used to call it in town mediate in the days gone by. Now they call it a bridge.
HM: A bridge. Yeah. Yeah. But that, in traditional calypso there wasn’t a bridge.
WD: (Two missing syllables) at all.
HM: Just a verse and a chorus.
WD: They still had a bridge you know, but they used to use the chorus, what they used to call
the band chorus.
HM: It’s a different chorus, an instrumental.
WD: Instrumental chorus. Because if you notice, they will start with an instrumental chorus.
HM: At the beginning?
WD: Yeah. Put it at the beginning. And they will repeat that chorus between the stan . . .
HM: Between, as an Instrumental.
WD: . . . verses.
HM: Sometimes we call that a turnaround. That’s just the instrumental piece that you would
insert in between.
WD: Between the verses? You give me a new word there.
HM: Okay. Because that’s where it would turnaround.
WD: We call it band chorus.
HM: Band chorus.
WD: Yeah.
�21
HM: Interesting.
WD: Well, now I told them, “Start teaching people to write three parts.” Because some,
especially in the soca genre . . .
HM: You need something different to change it up?
WD: You need something different to make it more interesting.
HM: Kind of give you a relief, a change somewhere.
WD: Well, I taught people how to do that. There’s a method that they mention. I do it in the
American method. If you’re writin’ in C. (Writes.) You write in the scale of C, when you go to that
third part with your bridge or whatever, you go to F.
HM: You go to a different, you modulate to a different key.
WD: Yeah. You go to F, you understand? And you end on the fifth, on G.
HM: On the G.
WD: Yes, and then you repeat the chorus.
HM: Go back to the chorus in the original key.
WD: Yeah.
HM: And so you get a lift.
WD: Yeah.
HM: Just a little break.
WD: Yeah. When you go to F with the sixth note of the key, right, you get a different, different
feel. And then you could end up on the sixth. The seventh or the sixth, you understand, and
then you come back to the tonic in the original key. I used to teach them fellas that.
HM: It sounds fresh that way.
WD: It sounds different, yeah.
HM: It sounds new.
WD: But people out there don’t know these things, what I tellin’ you. I had to teach them all that
kind of thing.
HM: That’s good that you were sharing it. One question I had about calypso being sort of the
news, in the traditional sense, was giving people the news, about different things, but now we
have twenty-four hour news, we have news seven days a week, we have social media. Does
that change what the role of calypso is?
�22
WD: In a way, yes. Because you could pick out something from the news. And highlight the
news itself by repeating that certain thing over and over and over. And it becomes like
indoctrination. You understand?
HM: Kind of beat it in . . .
WD: Beat it in.
HM: . . . into your head.
WD: Beat it into your head. Calypso does that a lot.
HM: So is that changed, though, with people being so kind of overexposed to the news or does
it . . .
WD: Here what happened. They’re taking a different side of it.
HM: A different look at it.
WD: Yeah.
HM: Kind of take it, rather than what they’re just hearing on TV.
WD: Maybe a humorous, or what we call, what word I looking for? What is called, you could put
a spin on it.
HM: A spin on it. Yeah, use some humor, some irony.
WD: They use that word to, in the political commentary. GB, what is the word that is used for
political? What, satire.
HM: Satire.
WD: I learned all them thing in school, you know. We learned it during English and thing though
I don’t pay attention to it too much.
HM: (To GB.) We’re talking about just the news being so, so much news that, what’s the role of
calypso. He’s saying, you know, is satire is putting a different angle on it.
34:56
WD: Sometimes when I listen to calypso and I, let me tell you something, let me tell you this,
there are plenty of people (four or five missing syllables) there is a calypso right now in Trinidad
and Tobago for every issue that you could ever think about.
GB: Exactly. Yep.
�23
WD: Every issue, a story. Yeah. ‘Cause I used, I still, I writin’ my thoughts in my little news
calypsos.
GB: Right.
WD: I will use a calypso to say something to the minister.
GB: That’s right.
WD: You understand? And I will write the calypso and then post it and say, watch me, like this
one here I post. I write Guardian. I post on Guardian, to say here what I want to say this
morning. I want to tell the chief justice, here what happened, the very same thing that he stood
silent with, when he said, watch me, “Privacy.” There’s nothing like absolute privacy.
GB: Now he’s protesting. When somebody does that. That’s right.
WD: He protestin’ and want to use the same right now in court.
GB: He wants to exercise the same right that he denies somebody else.
WD: He never deny.
GB: How many more questions do you have?
HM: I’m almost done. Do you need to go?
WD: He never denied.
GB: No, no. He’s almost talking more to me than to you.
WD: GB, GB, he never denied.
GB: Right.
WD: But he stood silent when that stupid statement was made.
GB: Was made. That’s right. Now it affect him. He jump up. He filing lawsuit.
HM: I’ve got one more.
WD: So I wrote the Guardian in the beginning, if you listen, I have the exact words there.
GB: Right.
HM: Let me ask one more question. The fact that you were not a performer. That you were a
composer for other performers, did that affect your writing? The fact that you weren’t going to
have to go sing on the stage, but you were writing your songs for other people, did that affect
your writing? Did that affect you?
WD: Well, you reversed it man, there. You found that I was not a performer.
�24
GB: He was.
WD: I never perform on stage, but every song I write, and GB could tell you that. Every song I
write I saw myself performing.
GB: Okay.
WD: Right up there
GB: Interesting.
HM: In your head? You were singing it on stage?
GB: No. He saw himself performing. Everything he’s ever written.
HM: So . . .
GB: He saw himself performing.
HM: You were imagining yourself on stage.
GB: Yeah.
WD: And in some cases I instructed who didn’t know to perform the song, how to perform it.
GB: Yeah.
M: How to do it. So, you were visualizing yourself as the performer.
WD: People like Trini.
GB: Yeah.
WD: Trini’s a guy who used to take me to the . . .
GB: You had to drill Trini to sing a song properly at first. He didn’t, kaiso doesn’t come natural to
him.
HM: He had to learn.
GB: Teach him phrasin’. Work with him in the studio, how to sing a line. Yeah, Trini’s a hard
work.
WD: Yeah. Well, I know you write for him that song.
GB: Trini’s a hard work.
HM: Is there anything else that I haven’t covered that you would like to say?
WD: Well, you’d have to ask me.
�25
GB: (Laughs.) No, he said, he didn’t answer. It’s a joke you have to think about.
HM: I’m saying, anything, I’m all, those are all my questions. Is there anything else that you’d
like to say that we didn’t cover about writing and how you write.
WD: I’d like to, here what happened, I’m trying to remember that girls’ name. (Note: before the
interview began WD was trying to remember the name of a female country artist.)
GB: (Laughs.)
HM: The country singer?
GB: Joker, what do you think about the policy that Kitchener, Superior, Chalkdust have, that if
you are not a writer, you don’t write your own song, you’re not a real calypsonian.
WD: Well, I argue that with Supie and Chalkie and them already.
GB: Yeah. What’s your position on that?
WD: Here what happened. When they had the tent, you know they had that tent over there by
Seaman and what, somewhere around there, all of them was there. And after me and Supie
argue that in the back, an issue (two missing syllables) with me. Supie, Chalkdust . . .
GB: Same people.
WD: . . . acting big shot. You were there.
GB: Mm-hm.
WD: And they talkin’’ bout . . .
GB: What’s your take on that?
WD: . . . here what I asked them: “How I know you write your song?”
GB: Thank you.
WD: How I know you write your song?
GB: Good point. Good point.
WD: ‘Cause I said, “You can come with a song and you can say ‘I write it’.”
GB: I write it.
WD: You understand? Some of the best song Chalkie sing, he never write. Two of the most
acclaimed song that he said he wrote, the man come right there, and sit down for me. And that
same man . . .
HM: Somebody else wrote that song.
�26
GB: Cheat.
HM: You wrote Chalkie’s song?
WD: Nah, nah, nah. I did not. The man who wrote the song come right there and sit down.
“Supreme Happiness.”
GB: “Supreme Happiness.”
WD: “Supreme Happiness.” (Four missing syllables.) He used to write so much song. He write
two songs for Chalkie. He write “Ram Kirpalani.”
GB: Okay.
WD: And he write “Supreme Happiness.” Brother is a, was a big, was a big, big man in the
Guardian, you know.
GB: Okay.
WD: Public man although I don’t know where he gone. That was the brother. He was a police
officer. His brother used to write for the Guardian.
GB: So Chalkdust deceitful then.
HM: Yeah. Because he’s not writing it.
WD: I wouldn’t call that deceitful.
GB: What is it again? Dishonest. Choose your word. Dishonest. Deceitful. Political.
WD: He’s still protecting that he could not (four missing syllables).
GB: He hypocritical. Because you see, if the writer is not well-known. He’s a small guy,
“Supreme Happiness” was never no high-profile performer, right?
WD: But he’s right.
GB: But most people eh know.
WD: You know something Sparrow told me?
GB: But most people eh know he write song.
40:00
WD: Sparrow told me “No artist pass a good song.” None.
GB: None. Regardless of who write it. That’s right.
�27
WD: Not gon’ pass a good song.
HM: They’d be stupid to.
GB: Thank you. Thank you.
HM: If they’ve got a better song . . .
GB: See the point you made just comin’ down there.
HM: . . . they would be foolish not to record the best song.
GB: You just made the point coming up here. We just talk that. Yes, so you’re correct. Once you
hear a good song, you don’t care who write it.
WD: You know “Supreme Happiness,” you know why he open up to me? He came here and sit
down here because he wanted to win the political. He was sick. He said he was suffering from
diabetes bad.
GB: Okay.
WD: He come here and he said, “Joker, Ah want you to help me.” He said, “I could help you,
too.” He said, here what happened, “I want to win the police crown.” Two times he win the police
crown I write for him. And so he come and he sit down there and that man start to cry. He start
to tell me what Chalkie and them fellows. He write “Ram Kirpalani” and then he write “Marilyn.”
GB: Right.
WD: Two of the most acclaimed songs.
GB: Songs Chalkie’s ever had. “Marilyn,” the uptempo one?
WD: Chalkie, he have a style.
GB: Yes.
WD: He have a style, he have a way he does go up.
(Note: someone brings in refreshments.)
GB: Hi. Hunter, you want . . .
HM: Sure. Thank you.
WD: He have a way that he does go up. Go up and (Sings.) Dah-dah-dah-dai. He go up there.
All of the, most of the calypsonians go up there now. But (two missing syllables) what, me and
Merchant learned to write on a four chord. We were, you understand, the four chord it goes C,
C.
GB: (Laughs.)
�28
HM: C in the key of G?
WD: C, nah, C, the sixth. A.
GB: C, sixth, A
WD: The second, the median, B, D minor. Then go to a G7. That is a whole sequence there.
Can write anything there.
GB: You study music?
WD: No.
HM: He, but people taught him. He had people teaching him. How to notate stuff.
GB: Okay.
WD: Here what happened. Here what happened, GB. You could write nearly anything on those
four chords. That’s what that sequence is, you know. That’s a four-chord sequence.
HM: (to GB) See, he was showing me how he learned to write it down, from pan, and from just
learning how to . . .
WD: Here what happened. You could write anything on them chords. Here what happened, who
teach me them chords. Clive Bradley.
HM: Clive Bradley.
WD: Clive Bradley. GB . . .
GB: I was just talking about (two or three missing syllables).
WD: GB, told me. Hear what happened.
GB: I was not talking to you about that, right?
WD: Boogsie showed me how to extend and look at them. With that, with those things you could
have, you could break it down into two chords.
HM: Two chords.
WD: Two. You could have the tonic. Tonic on the tonic sixth or the tonic ninth and you got the
same chords basically you could play. You could play the notes of the bass on the, for instance,
you could play C, C, A, A, A because they are the ninth, let me see, in the key of C.
GB: C. C ninth.
HM: C9 would have a D in it.
GB: A D. Right.
�29
WD: D, yeah, but high. You could have an octave D. But when you put that thing like this, like
you could put the eleventh, and all them kind of thing.
GB: The thirteenth and thing, yeah.
HM: The tensions.
WD: You could change the whole complex.
HM: Yeah. Those are jazz tensions.
WD: These are things that (three missing syllables) the Americans (four missing syllables) now.
GB: I don’t play.
WD: I was well-taught, you know.
HM: I’m going to turn this off.
End of interview
�
Trinidad
Oral History
A resource containing historical information obtained in interviews with persons having firsthand knowledge.
Interviewer
The person(s) performing the interview
J. Hunter Moore
Interviewee
The person(s) being interviewed
Winsford Devine
Location
The location of the interview
Subject’s home in Diego Martin, Trinidad and Tobago
Bit Rate/Frequency
Rate at which bits are transferred (i.e. 96 kbit/s would be FM quality audio)
43:30
Time Summary
A summary of an interview given for different time stamps throughout the interview
Subject sings: 7:01
------------------------------------------------
(Interview begins mid-sentence.)
Dublin Core
The Dublin Core metadata element set is common to all Omeka records, including items, files, and collections. For more information see, http://dublincore.org/documents/dces/.
Title
A name given to the resource
Winsford Devine interview
Description
An account of the resource
Actual Name: Winsford Devine
Other sobriquets/nicknames: Joker
Date of birth: August 15, 1943
Location of birth: Morne Diablo, Trinidad and Tobago
Awards (as of March 2018): Honorary Doctor of Letters (University of West Indies, St. Augustine), 2018, Honorary Distinguished Fellow, The Arts (University of Trinidad and Tobago), 2016, Hummingbird Medal (Silver), 2015
Best songs/best-known songs: “Progress,” “Saltfish,” “Phillip, My Dear,” “Steelband Woman,” “Capitalism Gone Mad,” “Say Say,” “Too Young to Soca,” and many, many others
------------------------------------------------
Individuals heard during the interview:
WD: Winsford Devine
GB: GB Ballantyne
HM: Hunter Moore
------------------------------------------------
Trinidad and Tobago terms and expressions as used in the interview:
Dey: there
Eh: ain’t,
Mih: my, I
Yuh: you
Date
A point or period of time associated with an event in the lifecycle of the resource
2017-11-02